Getting older

[Grandad]

When we see old folks on TV who are in care and unable to do anything for themselves, my wife and I often say "If I get like that just shoot me"
In jest of course but with degree of serious thought. A few current examples have prompted me to raise this subject.

My brothers ex mother in law reached 100 years yesterday. She lives in a care home, needs turning in bed through the night to avoid bed sores and can do vertually nothing for herself.

My French daughter in laws grandmother died at the weekend aged 96 and in a care home. (As an aside, it was her wish to be cremated which is much rarer in France than here in UK. My DiL is trvelling to central France today for the funeral tomorrow)

A near neighbour who we help with shopping and things around the house, had a fall 3 weeks ago and is still in hospital. She is 93, normally in good spirit and able to care for herself at home with a little social services assistance.

The point I am coming to is euthanasia. I am very much of the opinion that we should have the option, while of sound mind, to agree to voluntary euthanasia when quality of life becomes so low that there really IS no life.

The dear lady in my first example, who I have known for neary 60 years, spends most of her day asleep in a chair. She does not even recognise her two daughters nor any of her grandchildren. (Great and Great great)

So what are your opinions folks? Do you agree with me that in this advanced day and age, that we should have the right to determine when our life should be ended?

[Horus]

Yes many times over, my own mum died just before Christmas last year aged 94. She had lived a good life and after my father died my dear wife plus my brothers wife took care of her and she managed with our help to stay in her home. Around 3 years ago my brother and I decided she would be better off if she moved in with them and that was something I have always been grateful to them for doing. She was well cared for, but we noticed a steady decline in her mental health inasmuch as she forgot things and imagined things had happened which had not. Eventually she was diagnosed as having dementia and Alzheimers, but we could cope with that up until she had a fall and broke her shoulder ball joint. Once in the health system they are for all intents and purposes out of your hands and the social services take over, so after being discharged from hospital she was put into a local cottage hospital with rehabilitation facilities. At this point I should say it was an excellent hospital with great facilities for elderly care and was subsequently closed in the new year as part of the hospital reorganisation that saw many local hospitals closed and hundreds of beds in my area alone were lost.

Because of the nature of the injury it was a slow process as they could do nothing with it apart from having the arm in a sling, so her discharge date was uncertain. After about the first week she would keep asking me what she had done to be put in there and I would explain about the injury and the need for it to heal before she came home again. This question was repeated every visit and eventually I started to realise that she thought that she had done something wrong and we had put her in the hospital, this upset me greatly and even after reassuring her she had done nothing wrong I would get the same question the next day. Each day became a constant barrage of pleas to take her home and I doubt if she really knew who I was as her mental state became worse and worse. One day they told me they thought that she may have bowel cancer and wanted to carry out an endoscopy examination, as the day approached I rang my brother and said I don’t think we should put her through this trauma due to her mental state and he agreed, so did the hospital when I informed them of my decision.

Eventually they found her a place in a care home as the hospital could not cope with her condition and she was authorised a 24 hour constant carer. It was the most awful thing to have to visit her as she knew no one, appeared to be very distressed and would cry out in pain even though she was on medication, every time I left the hospital I would pray it would be my last visit. I kept hoping that the next phone call would be to say it had all ended as eventually it did. I can only say that her last few months were dreadful and if I could have pressed a button or a syringe to end it all then I would have.

[Grandad]

A very sad story Horus but all too common today I'm afraid.

In raising the subject, I would make it clear that this should be a decision made by the individual 'when of sound mind' so that, as in cases like your mother, the family can agree with medical support WHEN the time is right.

A very difficult decision to have to make but when all quality of life has gone, then that is the time to aid a peaceful passing.

My own mothers situation was not too dissimilar to your own Horus and she was only 83 when she died. It seems strange to use the phrase 'Only 83' when not too many generations ago you were lucky to reach your sixties.

[Mad Dilys]

I have told my family years ago that if I was ever put on life support, then three days and pull the plug, if I die, so be it.

I have just had the first surprise party of my life, a week after my 75th birthday..... delayed because of a bereavement on the other side of my grandson's relatives. He has lost both Grandmother and now Grandfather within six months. I am his last Grandparent and all of them were younger than me when they died.

I have asked my daughters to prepare for power of attorney over my affairs to be assumed before needed, so as to reduce complications.

I hope to sort out the "Stuff" I have in store this summer if I'm able, as I really don't want them to have to do it.

In the meantime I hope I shall enjoy each day, no matter what it brings and maybe even start a new career? Why not?

[Horus]

Remember MD that the 'enduring' Power of Attorney has changed and it is not available anymore and has been replaced by something else. Also tell your daughters that although they may hold such powers they will need to have it enacted prior to actually needing to use it and this can take some time, holding a power of attorney does not mean you can legally act on someones behalf until it has been registered/enacted.

[LovelyLadyLux]

My father passed at 80 yrs old due to colon cancer. Was somewhat tragic as that particular cancer can be treated BUT ???

He had a tumour that ruptured, had emergency surgery with the result that he was full of cancer, was too old and too weak to probably even survive chemo but it was offered him. He declined and was told that he about a year. He lasted about that length of time but after about 9 months the pain was incredible. The doctor came to his home and ordered cases and cases of morphine and other painkillers. The Doctor was more than blunt with me over and over that 'overdoses' happen often and 'IF' on happened there would never be an autopsy.

The means was in the house but honestly I couldn't do it. Both my Mom and Dad were incapable but when the rubber met the road I couldn't. He died in hospital after about a one month stay where he was so heavily medicated he really wasn't aware but his pain was controlled.

I would not want to last out my last few years if I was no longer able or capable but WHO is going to make the decision that today is the day?

I'd quite like to see legislation in place so that if euthanasia is your decision there is a mechanism for it happen. I even believe Canada is in the process of enacting this type of legislation and the powers that be have made quite a bit of progress on it but are now arguing it out with those who oppose this.

My father's last sister is still alive at 96. She lives in Eastern Canada and was more than mentally alert until she was about 94. Am not entirely sure what happened but suddenly there was something with the pacemaker in her heart and she had surgery. Following that she deteriorated dramatically and now can no longer walk or look after herself at all. Her two daughters, my cousins (and their husbands and adult kids) provide daily on-going care but this has taken over all their time and their lives so much so their own quality of life is greatly diminished. They are struggling daily to keep my Aunt in her home (it belonged to her father and she has lived there almost all her 96 yrs) but it is taking a toll. In home care is extremely costly too.

Very difficult issue with no simple solution.

[Horus]

Care homes are incredibly expensive here also, it can work out at over £40,000 per year.

[Grandad]

I have been reminded on the news today how different people reach old age in different physical and mental states. Philip, Duke of Edinburgh has announced that he will retire from public duty in the autumn. He is 96 next month and in pretty good physical and mental state for his age.

He has certainly 'done his time' in the service of the country and an outstanding consort to the Queen and I wish him well in his retirement.
The Queen however at 91 intends to continue with her full diary of appointments although Charles and William will be expected to take more of the burden.

OK, they are privileged people who get the best of medical care but you can't actually stop the ageing process and I am a great admirer of both the Duke and the Queen. Long may they both live.

[LovelyLadyLux]

I read in the Newspaper here (was not in English but I think I figured out enough to get the gist of the article) that Phillip was out somewhere doing a ribbon cutting for some venue at 95. Part of my point is to say that since there is even an article about this in a Spanish article he is much admire at his age for what he is doing.

They're both amazing in their dedication and service to the country.

[Grandad]

LLL, you are probably aware that Philip has a reputation for being a bit of a joker, or as is often the case, putting his foot in it with an inappropriate comment.

Apparently when some equerry said to him that he was sorry that he was standing down. The Dukes reply was something like "I have a problem standing up these days"......ever the joker.

[LovelyLadyLux]

I wasn't aware of his jokester reputation but that was a good one. It is now on the US News that is broadcast here that he will be stepping down from active duties and has the full support of Queen Liz (course she is carrying a full load at 91!)

I sometimes, well more than sometimes, wonder the commitment some give to others. Queen Elizabeth, Phillip and even Charles have been out there for all their lives essentially appearing and giving to the people.

I similarly wonder the 'why' a man like Trump who obviously can have and do anything in this life he wants would opt to take on wanting to be President? Really I wonder why? Does he really just want the power? Does he really think he can make the world better? Are his intentions really lofty and high?

But, on the other hand - why would he want to give up his 'golden years' (I think he is 69) to subject himself and his family to a public life of service that in this day and age means you'll be critiqued, monitored, possibly subject to serious assault/assassination.

Would you give up your last few years of life for politics? to serve the demands of people, your political party, leaders of other countries and on and on???

[Grandad]

LLL, I think the big difference between people like the Queen and Trump is that the Queen is definitely non political. Trump has chosen to become political IMO for the sheer power of the office. Her only role in politics is to approve the actions of 'her' Prime Minister which is a bit of a rubber stamp. She is briefed each week by her Prime Minister on the political events of each week but she has no say in those events.
However she is known to be well informed and no doubt in those private weekly audiences she does have opinions to express........but strictly in confidence of course.
Incredibly, at 91, she still rides occasionally when at Windsor.

[Grandad]

Well, the dear old lady who I mentioned in the introduction of this thread died today. She reached 100 years and 22 days. But reflecting back on LLL's earlier comment about morphine, this lady was not in any pain, as far as the family could decide, but a few days ago the doctor put her on a morphine pad (whatever that is). I believe this action was taken because she was not able to tell the doctor if she WAS in any pain.
Perhaps this was a kind way of speeding her demise when all quality of life had gone. The family is relieved that she passed away peacefully.....

[Horus]

Very sad Grandad

[LovelyLadyLux]

Any passing is always a bit sad but sounds like this lady had quite a good run at life. Very good to have reached 100 yrs.

Pain can be a deal breaker, wear you down and if you can't get any relief from it it can really impact quality of life (course am stating the obvious) but my point is that it was pretty pro-active on behalf of the doctor to put her on a pain patch. That would be terrible if there was lots of pain yet it couldn't be disclosed.

[Grandad]

A near neighbour who we help with shopping and things around the house, had a fall 3 weeks ago and is still in hospital. She is 93, normally in good spirit and able to care for herself at home with a little social services assistance.

This lady spent 4 weeks in hospital before being moved to rehab care. The intention was to decide if she would be fit to return home with support from local welfare.
On Friday morning at 2am she buzzed for assistance to use the bathroom. She went back to bed and at 5am, on a routine check, she was found to have passed away peacefully in her sleep.
That's the way to do it. RIP dear friend Dorothy..........

[Horus]

Save for the fall it was certainly the way to do it
Similar to my own mum with the fall and the rehab care, unfortunately she went from bad to worse and had a very stressfull and sorry end

[LovelyLadyLux]

This news article is on our local news today. I believe it is real as locally we do not have "fake" news and this person is able to be identified.

As per the story he has been diagnosed with terminal lung cancer. Seems he had one surgery and one lung removed and now the cancer has spread to his other lung. He says he has never wanted to suffer so has opted for the right to die which is now available under Canadian law and so at 2pm tomorrow he will die.

Right now he is walking and talking and obviously showing News Reporters his house and home.

While he says he has the 'right to die' (and date and time apparently scheduled) I'm not sure in his present state of health which is 'healthy' (walking, talking and not even bed-ridden) albeit with a terminal diagnoses that who knows how long it will take to play out by itself I'm not totally sure his timing of "tomorrow at 2pm" is appropriate. Seems rather early to me to be pulling the pin..........

Am not really sure when I'd like the proverbial plug to be pulled but this seems rather early as he still have a fairly high level quality of life (and given this I'm not totally sure that the powers that be will grant him this decision)

Thoughts?

This is the URL to the article: http://www.cheknews.ca/deep-bay-man-cho ... ay-323032/

You can see him via photos ostensibly sitting on his motorcycle.

This is the article:

Deep Bay man chooses Right to Die and will pass on Tuesday

Posted By: Dean Stoltz on: May 28, 2017
In: News, Top Stories

Ed Ness has terminal cancer and will die at home under a doctor’s supervision. He spoke about it with CHEK News reporter Dean Stoltz at his Deep Bay home.

72 year old Ed Ness doesn’t look like a man who is about to die, but he is and he’s not only ok with it, he has planned it.
 
“I’ve never had a fear of death” Ed Ness told me during the interview.  “I’ve had a very adventurous life. I’ve had so many close calls in my life.”
 
But the one close call he couldn’t escape was with lung cancer.
 
First diagnosed in March 2016, he had one lung removed only to find out in March of this year that it had spread and is now terminal. 
 
“And I immediately went down signed up for the DWD, Dying With Dignity.” he said. 
 
He says he and wife Gloria  have believed in dying with dignity for some 20 years and now Canadian law allows it, adding for him personally it’s his only option at the end. 
 
“I’m afraid of a slow death if it’s a slow painful death, you know I wouldn’t want that” said Ness. “You walk through some of these geriatric wards and see some of those people who have been in there for five years. No, that’s not my style at all.” 
 
But as well as Ed might look right now, and he even took me into his garage to show me his beloved Harley Davidson, he’s sick and he’s planned his death for Tuesday at 2pm, less than two days away. 
 
“You know, today is Sunday, it’s about 2 o’clock”  I said to him during the interview. “You have less than two days to live. It’s hard for me to say that. It’s hard to believe. How do you feel? Are you counting down the clock?”
 
“No I feel real at peace, very much at peace and I try to tell people please don’t feel sorry for me” Ness replied. “The person you want to feel sorry for is my wife. She’s taking this real hard.”
 
“You know I wake up every morning and think I’ve only got two more mornings that I’ll wake up and feel Ed there beside me.” said his wife Gloria.
 
But she says she supports him 100% and does not want to see him die any other way.
 
“Ok Dean come on in and I’ll show you where all this is going to happen.” Ed said as he took me into his living room. 
 
Ed will be in his favourite recliner.
 
There will be two needles and by about 2:20 he says he’ll be dead.
 
“We don’t want it to be a sad, morose occasion” Gloria said, wanting to be positive. “We want it to be happy and reminisce about the good times and we want people to toast Ed goodbye and wish him bon voyage.”
 
“I’m at peace.” Ed said once more. 
 
His wife along with numerous friends and family will be at his side when he passes on Tuesday.   

[Horus]

How very, very sad much as I support his right to die with dignity, I must say it does seem a little premature. It is even harder for his wife who will be left without her husband especially as he could have been with her for some time longer, but when is the right time? maybe he has resigned himself to the fact that he will never recover and in the scheme of things he bekieves that a few more weeks or months is academic and I suppose if he has made peace with himself and his family and friends then who are we to say different. Maybe he is also afraid that if he leaves it until he is really ill then his wishes may be thwarted?

[Grandad]

It doesn't mention what stage the cancer is at, or the prognosis, or if Ed is under medication for pain relief. These are all factors that would be taken into account when deciding the 'right time'.
On the evidence I too feel that the timing is premature and the decision should be taken further down the line. Having said that, Ed has the right to make his own decision, in discussion with his family, and who can deny him that right.
It is still the saddest and most difficult decision anyone could make.