A picture of desperation.

[Grandad]

I hope I am not breaking any copyright laws by posting this picture but it was published in the Daily Mail and I found it such a powerful image, that seemed to portray the plight of many people in Syria, that I wanted to share it. It shows people of the besieged Palestinian district of Yarmuk, in Damascus, waiting for food aid in a devastated street.

The conflict in Syria has been going on now for three years and regrettably it is now less of a news item.

The picture tells a very sad story but what an incredible image.
(Copyright AFP/Getty Images)

[Horus]

Don't worry Grandad, if it's in the interest of education then there is usually no problems and if there were, then a simple request to remove it would be acted upon and an apology given.

But as to the image it does graphically indicate the plight of these people although to me it always begs the same question "what exactly do these so called revolutions actually achieve?" To date I have not seen any where the people are any better off than they were under the old regimes.

[Grandad]

But as to the image it does graphically indicate the plight of these people although to me it always begs the same question "what exactly do these so called revolutions actually achieve?" To date I have not seen any where the people are any better off than they were under the old regimes.

I do agree Horus but it always seems to be only a minority 'active' in the revolutions but the majority suffer the result of the internal conflict. To me it always begs the question of how short sighted are those who actually lead a revolution without thinking about what the end game might be. I can already imagine what Egypt will be like in ten years from now and as for Afghanistan, the timescale is much shorter.

I think the Ukraine is becoming a very dangerous situation and I hope that doesn't go the way it certainly could.

[Horus]

I agree Grandad, people have short memories and maybe it would be timely to look up 'Crimea' and 'Balaclava' after all it is the same place we are talking about

Half a league, half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.
'Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns' he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

'Forward, the Light Brigade!'
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldiers knew
Some one had blunder'd:
Their's not to make reply,
Their's not to reason why,
Their's but to do and die:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of Hell
Rode the six hundred.

Flash'd all their sabres bare,
Flash'd as they turned in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army while
All the world wonder'd:
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro' the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel'd from the sabre-stroke
Shatter'd and sunder'd.
Then they rode back, but not
Not the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon behind them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
While horse and hero fell,
They that had fought so well
Came thro' the jaws of Death,
Back from the mouth of Hell,
All that was left of them,
Left of six hundred.

When can their glory fade?
O the wild charge they made!
All the world wonder'd.
Honour the charge they made!
Honour the Light Brigade,
Noble six hundred!

Alfred, Lord Tennyson

[LovelyLadyLux]

Very good photo Grandad. Very much a picture of devastation, destruction and despair. What has been won? Who will benefit from all this and how many years will have to pass before this picture fades from all the memories of all the families touched by this? How many children growing up now and in their impressionable years will learn from this experience and how will they themselves act it out? Just can't get my entire head around many of the issues and politics that have been playing out in the Middle East.

I think Tennyson said it all very well. Good poem H and very applicable to this thread.

Personally I've been terribly upset about Syria since the conflict started. Asad has no mercy or conscience about killing his own people. He WILL remain in power at any cost and the cost in terms of human life and suffering is mounting horrendously.

I do not have a sense of the rebels and have long lost what they are fighting for. What is there left to gain for their country men now? At this time if the rebels were to win - WHAT are they winning? A country totally torn apart and devasted. Was was the cost of winning and I do not trust that any other Leader (rebel) who comes to power won't be worse than Asad.

I also wonder why 'we' haven't intervened but then I think about the entire gambit of 'should we' and all that us intervening implies and come up with an equally ambivalent position of what 'we' should do.

[Horus]

I don't think we should intervene in anything that does not directly concern us, the Middle East is their problem and should be dealt with by countries in that region. I quoted the poem "The Charge of the Light Brigade" because it is a good example of the last time we meddled in that particular region of what was at the time a province of Russia, granted that later Nakita Kruschev for whatever political gambit gave it to the Ukraine as a gift back in the 50s/60s, but it is still the old Crimean peninsular with all it's old divisions and affiliations, a bit like the Middle East come to think about it.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Seems Vladimir is going to reclaim the Crimea peninsula too. Barack sort of, kind of chastised him saying something to the effect 'I don't think you should go there' and 'I'm going to stand with my friends (like he has some) if you do go there' but then last time when he drew a RED line it kinda evaporated so IMO highly UNLIKELY that Vladimir will listen. Not too sure WHO the allies are either since Barack hasn't actually been out there making friends.

That being said, I do basically agree that "we" shouldn't be where "we" need not be however the suffering that is being reigned down on innocent people is horrendous. I can't help but think if it was happening to me wouldn't I be living in hope that somebody somewhere would come and save me?

It is a total can of worms and a real mess. I can see both sides - well there are MULTI sides. We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

The desperation shown in the picture just vibrates and pulsates.

[Horus]

The problem for me is that other than offering direct aid (not administering it) to any stricken region then we should stay well clear. We (the West) always finish up as some sort of bad guy and we are dammed if we do and dammed if we don't. In recent years the majority of Western intervention has been to protect people of the Islamic faith from some sort of persecution, this has ranged from the Middle East with places like Libya, Iraq, Syria and almost anywhere else that revolution breaks out to European conflicts such as Bosnia where Muslims were the target of ethnic cleansing. We see this same trait in many parts of Africa where Islamic extremists attempt to divide and take over the country, often where they form a minority, so what I am saying is that most of these conflicts have a common denominator, ergo religion. Unfortunately for us it is a religion of conquest and as such it will never see eye to eye with the Western way of life and any interference by us however well intended is always viewed with scepticism. Even this latest problem in the Ukraine will certainly escalate along ethnic grounds as the Tartars and others will claim more allegiance to the old Russian Empire than they will to the Ukraine and as it is essentially in Russia’s back yard especially with it's Black Sea fleet based in Sevastopol, then I say, Mr Obama, Mr Cameron and any other European leaders who wish to meddle, stay out of it.

[Grandad]

Well said both of you, you eloquent scribes. You reflect my thoughts but have a much better way of expressing them.

I think the Ukraine is potentially a Very Hot Spot. And if the likes of Obama and Cameron choose to poke their nose in then who can say where that might lead.....I shudder to think.

They all seem to get a strong case of bravado (without deja vu to learn from), just look at Blair and Iraq, and him being swayed by Bush. I sincerely hope that Cameron and Hague don't get on the bandwagon and follow Obama....or I can envisage Kiev looking like Yarmuk in the picture and who knows how far beyond Ukraine

[Horus]

I think that the ace up Russia's sleeve maybe the 30 plus billion dollars they need to pull them out of the merde, not to mention the huge debt they already owe to Russia for gas and I doubt (nor do I want) that the EU can fund that sort of debt. I also have to fess up to not having any particular feelings of welcome towards this former soviet satelite state as at heart they are still part of that slavic block that seem never to fit naturally into a European collective. I also have a problem with the fact that many of their nationals willingly staffed the German concentration camps and were often more brutal in implimenting the atrocities that were commited in them, it is these sort of things that do not sit too well with my view of them as a nation and as far as I am concerned I hope they stay as part of the Soviet block and not part of the EU.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Well Obama mouthed off and this was broadcast on all TV news here AND sure didn't take Vladimir too long to get approval from his Parliament to move in. Doesn't seem that Vlad has paid any attention at all to what Obama has said - but then WHO in this world IS listening to Obama?

Going to be interesting. Helicopters seen overhead and military on the ground. Ukraine now accusing Russia of an invasion - gee whiz - it ALL starts again. Same/same just different locations 'cept I don't believe this invasion has anything to do with religion.

[Jayway]

The world is horrible when you think about it, first item on portugal news this morning was football fans beating on the side of the teams coach - seems very difficult to find a satisfied person who is content with their lot. ( I am ) I have the TV on whilst I am doing petitions on here and find it quite ridiculous, causes with famous actors begging for money for kids. The problem is to stop them breeding like rabbits but of course that is not PC -- HUH - -

[Horus]

LLL, I did not say that this conflict was particularly of a religious nature, but rather that is was more likely to descend along ethnic lines as there are various ethnic groups within the Ukraine and of course along with ethnicity we usually get religion as a by product. Almost certainly this action is triggered more by Putin's fear of the close relationship that Ukrain is making with Europe in general and the potential for it joining N.A.T.O. and this would be very disturbing for him to contemplate. Also as the whole of their (Russia's) Black Sea fleet is based in the Crimea, it's only warm water port, then it is maybe understandable that he wants to prevent any such a threat to what he sees as Russia's sphere of influence. To my mind it is the instability that it will bring to the worlds ecconomy in general that will hurt the most, Russia is the biggest supplier of natural gas to Europe and most of it is passing through the Ukraine to reach us. So we could get two scenarios, one that Russia turns off the supply as a tit for tat if any sanctions are imposed and that would impact severely on all of Europe as world energy prices will automatically soar. This of course would impact greatly on Russias already weakened currency so it may be a weapon that Europe also tries to use against Russia to punish it ecconomically by buying gas from other sources, again pushing gas prices up. Then we have the very likely scenario that Ukrain defaults on it's depts and this will also have disasterous effects on both Russia and Europe and probably cause as much instability as the last Euro crisis and then take many years for stock markets to recover as they suffer huge losses which of course will get passed onto Joe Public. I have little doubt that Russia will annexe several provinces close to the Russian border that have a majority of Russian speaking and pro Russia populations and that will be the stand off resulting in a smaller Ukraine minus it's breakaway provinces and the newly created buffer states that Russia always desires once it comes up against a border with another potentially hostile country.

[LovelyLadyLux]

The Markets already seem to be reacting and sinking lower. Everybody is scrambling to see what they can do, might do, should do, maybe do OR not. Agree Russia wants to maintain its warm water port. The move(s) are on and the giant Chess game of life starts again.

I agree this action by Russia doesn't have anything to do with religion and is more related to ethnic ties that bind..........

Wonder what is going to happen to the Space program?

[Horus]

You also have to remember that Putin is up for re-selection and a lot of Russians are wondering about all of his private wealth so a good diversion always comes in handy.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Well it seems that Putin has backed off. Sent the Stock Markets here higher after they fell day before. Obama has also announced he is going to reduce the size of the American Military. Going to be interesting. Definitely lots seems to be at play in the world today. What is that old saying - "Times they be a changing"

[LovelyLadyLux]

In terms of desperation I'm thinking that with all the rain that has been falling in Luxor many of those living in villages with the open topped homes might be getting pretty desperate about now. Seems Luxor has had mega rain, hail and weather typical of HERE where I'm at!! Be very hard on those no accustomed to the wet and those living in open homes.

[Horus]

These weird weather events seem to have impacted most of the world, is it global warming or is it just a cyclical event that happens every so often? When one read the biblical account of the ten plagues of Egypt, most can be put down to unusual weather and the subsequent problems that it caused.