My new camera story

[Grandad]

I chose not to clutter Horus' thread about his new camera and to let it, hopefully, reach a conclusion with a new camera and some pics.

My story goes like this. You remember I told you about the Fuji660EXR compact that I bought to take to Egypt in March and so avoid taking the DSLR. Well, the little camera is really excellent and for £100 including postage was a good deal. I took some pretty good pics in and around Luxor but knew I had been hasty in buying it because in the Luxor light that darn screen is absolutely useless and I regretted not taking the big Nikon.

Early on in Horus' thread he mentioned a Fuji X10 after I had said that I really wanted a compact with live EVF. On our return home I decided to look again at the X10 and, surprise surprise, there is now an even better X20 released in January so for the last couple of weeks I have been 'lusting' for a Fuji X20 But having never even held one, we went to John Lewis at Bluewater today so I could get to handle one. My mind is now made up and I MUST have one and it MUST be the silver/black version....all retro and thirties rangefinder camera looking.

So, picking up Horus' comment about big boys toys having to be taken into consideration within ones home expenditure (he didn't say exactly that but I think that was the general sentiment ) I thought how can I get that camera for nothing????? (Well almost )

At John Lewis, the camera is £479.95 but I can buy in Hong Kong for £365 including DHL carriage. This is what I did......

I had an unexpected rebate of £70 from my energy supplier npower last week, a good start.
I posted 4 items on ebay that I either no longer needed or could live without. They had 'Buy it Now' total value of £340 and one of them sold within 55 minutes of being listed last Friday. Three have gone and I am just waiting for the last to achieve its £100 BIN, that I know it will.

So there we are; I bought a little camera in haste and soon regretted it; I wanted to find an 'out' and get a far superior compact with live EVF. Hopefully in a week or so I shall have the new X20 that I know I shall be very happy with.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction back in January Horus.....took a while but I will get there soon. QED


I suppose it is a case of watch this space for some pics......coming soon

[Horus]

Grandad, I don't want to rain on your parade because that camera is a real beauty, but have you bought it yet?

[Grandad]

Grandad, I don't want to rain on your parade because that camera is a real beauty, but have you bought it yet?

No, not yet Horus......don't tell me there is an X30 on the way or that you know where I can get one for £250 Do please tell

[LovelyLadyLux]

That question from H sounded pretty ominous to me! I'm betting he has sourced you an even better find Grandad!

Don't BUY 'til you get the answer (and then tell me cause I'm about at the same place re: cameras). I have the BIG Nikon D90 which is excellent (although there are MORE advanced Nikons that I'm lusting for IF I win the lottery) and then I went and bought a refurbished Nikon Coolpix to carry in my purse - BUT - I'm absolutely no good at taking photos holding a camera at arms length looking at a monitor.

I want to find something GOOD that is in between a BIG camera and a small small camera......

[Horus]

No there is nothing ominous about what I meant, just a few points to consider. Obviously there is every likelihood that there will be an X-30, Fuji like any other camera manufacturer today seem to bring out an updated version nearly every year and this is no exception. You can currently purchase the X-10 for £320 on Amazon and the newer X-20 is available at around £537.

Let me start by saying that the X series 2/3rds sensor as used in the X-10 camera is the same one that is used in the X-S1 camera that I will probably finish up buying. In addition the X-10 has received high acclaim from nearly every quarter and this sensor has been hailed as one of Fuji’s best so far, however in true Fuji fashion it was not without its teething problems. In certain light conditions it would produce orbs of light usually around bright reflections from objects, this became a big problem in the early days and resulted in a lot of negative reviews, but as I say it is typical of Fuji, they often bring out a superb camera and then ruin it by getting something wrong because they have rushed it out to early. Once it became common knowledge they issued a software update to correct this, but still did not recognise it as a fault that required a replacement, but would ‘fix’ a faulty one if it was returned to them. This led to a lot of criticism and eventually a redesigned sensor was fitted to all cameras produced after a certain date (about May last year). Everyone I know of who owns the X-10 speaks very highly of it and say it is a perfect accompaniment to their larger zoom cameras and the previos fault seems to have been well resolved.

The X-20 is an almost identical camera and if your read the specifications there are almost no differences at all other than the added phase detection on the focus setting, which of course is or should be an improvement, it does however have a slightly changed sensor and it is this that would concern me. I have seen people praising this new model and also people saying it is far noisier than the X-10 and that is as much as I know, but as I said earlier Fuji have a bad record in this area and I would want to see if any faults start to show in the next few months, or to see what people have to say about it. I have to be honest and say that I have not really researched this camera, but I am always cautious of the latest offerings preferring to buy last years model of any camera because you know there is another model already on the drawing board as you buy your new one.

There is no doubt that this is a cracking camera and the retro styling is very pleasing and I can see why anyone would like this camera. The main appeal to me of the X-20 would be the silver styling that looks very elegant and adds real class to it so I can see why someone would want to own one. Another important factor to consider is that although it will be considerably cheaper when buying from Hong Kong or China there are some downsides to consider. One is that these goods often attract the attention of the customs & excise and very often are accompanied by a demand for import duty. My biggest concern though is the warranty, we all hope that our purchases are good quality and don’t require a replacement or repair, but it does happen. What many people don’t realise is that although it will have a genuine Fuji 12 months warranty (or should have) it will not be covered or repaired by the UK service department and would have to be returned to Hong Kong or wherever for any repair, this will be at the expense of the sender with no guarantee that the seller will agree with your definition of a faulty camera and may request a charge. I have seen this happen with many people buying what they thought were UK goods on sites such as Amazon, only to find that the supplier was selling ‘grey goods’ that were imported from other areas of the world. There is usually nothing wrong with these grey goods and the goods from Hong Kong or elsewhere will be the real McCoy, it is the warranty that has to go through the region it was purchased from, so contrary to popular belief it is very unlikely that a camera purchased elsewhere in the world would be covered by that companies UK franchise for warranty work, although they would carry out a paid for repair. So it is a decision you have to make as to whether or not the risk is worth taking and to be honest it probably is if the camera had been out a little while, or do you wait twelve months for when the price drops by about 1/3 as all these cameras eventually do, decisions, decisions.

[Grandad]

Thanks for the words of wisdom H As always a well considered response. I tend to be a little impetuous and, whilst I am aware of all your cautions, think it is unlikely that I will have a problem and if I do it is my own fault. Not the wisest of attitudes but I am usually prepared to take a gamble.

I accept all you say about the X10 but it was the silver option of the X20 that I was really taken by. SO retro but at the same time with all its built in technology, SO today.

I won't decide immediately but as I have now sold both my compacts I am without a small camera so I don't expect I will ponder for too long.

Thanks again for your comments, I will let you know what I finally decide....

[Horus]

Go with what you think Grandad, I was only pointing out a few potential pitfalls, but at the end of the day everything is a gamble.

[Grandad]

I will now conclude Act 1 of my New Compact Story......with tongue in cheek and a grin on my face.

Thanks to Horus' measured analysis and comparison of the X10 and the X20, together with me reading many reviews, particularly for the X10, I have compromised and save a lot of dosh which can go in the holiday fund for the next trip somewhere See I said I am smiling......

In the end I thought I would prefer to buy in the UK and avoid any risks associated with buying from Asia. I then thought there is little difference between the X20 and the now well tried X10. A visit to Fuji Shop found that they had just one 'refurbished' X10 at £249.99. A quick search for Fuji discount vouchers found one for 10% at Fuji Shop. Postage was £4.99 and payment via Paypal so I now have on the way an X10 for £229.98 (I compromised to have a black camera) and nearly £200 into the holiday fund.....all for nothing, well nearly

[LovelyLadyLux]

Wow - an interesting saga with all the twists and turns of real life buying too!

Out of curiosity - when you guys and gals too are buying something (like a camera, laptop, TV - electronics generally) do you usually purchase an extended warranty? Good idea to buy? Bad?

I've notice when I buy on Ebay there is always the offer of an extended warranty. I've never bought an extended warranty even on the refurbished things I've purchased but always wonder if I should buy it. So far, knock on wood I've always gotten a good item with no defects or problems. This has lead me to think that I've saved on the warranty cost which is usually considerable. I know I'd kick myself IF I bought something that broke down quickly and I didn't have a warranty but so far I've never ever really had to return something for repair.

[Grandad]

LLL, my view is that all products come with a manufacturers 12 month guarantee and if a mechanical ( or even electronic) item is going to fail it will most likely fail within the 12 month period. I never buy extended warantees on the basis that the cost is quite high and if you buy 3 or 4 years warantee, the product is probably coming to the end of its design life anyhow.

So far, and I am knocking on wood , I have not been caught out......

[Horus]

I think you made the right choice there Grandad and if you bought it from the Fuji shop I am willing to risk saying that you will be back on here saying that you are sure they have given you a brand new and not refurbished camera. Having said that, they really are as good as a new one because the reason for the return is usually something minor or as often as not it is the stupidity of the original purchaser not knowing what they were buying. As to warranties, I tend not to buy them, but Fuji do offer a good choice of extended warranties that usually include one claim for personal negligence such as dropping the camera as well as full parts and labour. Even the refurbished cameras will come with a full 12 month warranty and if you need to know who's butt to kick let me know. As we all agree most faults usually show up within twelve months especially if you use it regularly, but I did get an early fault on mine that was sorted out OK and they even refurbished a few other items while they were at it, so no complaints there, but that made me decide to take out an extended warranty and provided you do so before the 12 months expires you can choose the length of time and cost so its easy to judge it against the cameras value or useful life. In Grandads case if he keeps the X-10 for a couple of years he will be able to pick up an X-20 or even an X-30 for £200 or so. I think you will be very happy with your choice and decision to buy it here in the UK. Also glad my Fuji Shop tip saved you some money. now all you want is one of those really nice retro leather cases to go with it.

[LovelyLadyLux]

I'm on the same page re: extended warranty. I've always figured that if something is going to show up it will pretty quickly IF the item is used and most everything I buy I do tend to use.

I guess I was just wanting validation that my decision NOT to purchase extended warranties was a good one. I've used the same line of reasoning as Grandad AND figured that by the time it broke down it might be a couple years into owning it and would I really want to fix the old one verses think about getting a new one. I buy LOTS of refurbished and have never had a hitch or a glitch (touch wood). I'd kick myself if something did break down but I also have to say in my buying history I've been lucky and have never gotten a lemon.

Not sure what I'd do if I did have a problem but I kinda have a feeling that the Seller would be happy or ok with substituting me another one if I did have a problem as early on I'd be pointing out to the Seller that it will cost him more in the long run to deal with me than to give me another one. Seller might or might not initially cooperate but being the sweet persuasive person I am I'm sure the Seller wouldn't want to get to know me up close and personal over all the LONG LONG months we'd deal about this until the issue was rectified or resolved.

[Horus]

I like your style

[Grandad]

X10 delivered today just about 36 hours after I ordered it. As Horus has said, these 'refurbished' Fuji cameras are often indiscernible from new and such was the case with my purchase.

Absolutely no evidence of having even been out of the box before but I am sure it was fully checked over before repacking. The battery had never been charged and the date had not been set so I am pretty confident this is a 'new' camera.

I have only taken a few testers indoors so far but hopefully I will get something to show over the weekend. I have a lens hood on order, the genuine Fuji one is nearly £50; why I cannot understand, so I have an exact copy coming from Jersey for £8.99. I have also ordered a flexible shutter release, YES, the shutter release button is threaded for a flexible release, how cool is that

So far I am most impressed, I will try to get some pics in the next day or so........

[LovelyLadyLux]

That arrived FAST! No such thing as FAST delivery in Canada especially over to this Island.

The world of refurbished is really interesting. I buy refurbished and it does arrive basically "new" and I've always been amazed that I've never noticed a scratch or mark and batteries are always new.

Waiting to see some good photos Grandad!!

[Horus]

There you go I did tell you that you would be impressed. Fuji are pretty good at selling cameras without a lens hood, my HS10 did not come with one which is rather daft when you think of the cost of a camera. In my case I had another Fuji camera with the correct hood for the HS10 and like you I would not pay that amount for a bit of plastic.

[Grandad]

OK, so I can now round off this thread as today was lovely and sunny, still cold, but it gave me the opportunity to test run the new camera. Mrs G and I agreed not to venture out of town, we prefer our excursions mid week when there are fewer people out and about. Some still have to go to work apparently.

Anyhow it was left to me to just pop into town for an hour and get some Saturday morning shots. I know that over recent years I have posted many pictures around my home city so my apologies if these look familiar. I just used the camera on its EXR setting which is supposed to analyse the frame and make the best settings. I have not yet tried any portraits or macro, they are yet to come.

I prefer to always shoot in landscape format because it best suits picture viewers and TV viewing. In a few, where portrait format might have been better, I have angled the frame and I would appreciate comments about whether you think this works…or not. So here we go, my first pics with the little Fuji X10……..

The very first X10 picture, a flower stall..... Café Rouge customers were able to drink their coffee Alfresco..... An ‘Angled shot’ of buildings in Sun Street.



Buskers outside the Cathedral Gate..... Always difficult to get all of the cathedral in frame.....
Angled shot of the South West tower.



A service in the Quire meant doors were closed. This was through a very highly smoked glass door and I thought the camera dealt with it very well..... Another busker, sweet sounding clarinet this time..... Two views down St Peters Street towards The Westgate.



Angled shot of forecourt of Marlowe Theatre..... Steel sculture on Marlowe Theatre site..... River trip on the Stour River.



Two pictures at the site of an old water mill..... Finally a river trip punt.



That's it and thanks to Horus for guiding me towards the best little compact on the market IMO

[Horus]

All I can say is that these images look tremendously sharp and colourful and it certainly lives up to it's reputation. the colours are very well represented as are the highlites and shadows, what a super camera. You are going to be making us all jealous with the quality of the pictures I am very impressed by these so far and hope that my new camera (when I get it) gives the same results as it has the same size and X series sensor as this camera has. very happy that you are pleased with your choice and no doubt when you really get to grips with it we will see some cracking images. Generally speaking I am not a big fan of the angled picture although in some cases they can be overdone, I am also a little curious about the 5th image which seems to show a severe lean inwards of the left hand tower, is that due to the effect of it being a wide angle shot or is something else comming into play here? Not a criticism as such, but just an observation that a very wide shot like this may need a bit of post processing to straighten up the image. Anyway overall very impressed with the general sharpness and colour so far.

[Kiya]

Fantastic photos & all colours are sharp & real looking I don't need to tell you what my favourite is

[Grandad]

Cheers folks for your encouraging comments. I have to say I am very impressed and, as we are aware, pictures actually loose a little in resizing and transmission and the originals are even a little better.

I am guessing you are referring to number 5 Kiya, the one Horus has commented on. I know you have some past connection with our lovely Canterbury Cathedral.

Yes Horus, I think it is a convergence problem of being at such a low viewpoint and the towers stretching so high above. Bell Harry Tower is centre frame and appears vertical but the South West tower on the edge of the frame is most affected. I did a slight convergence correction but it was shortening the tall tower so I left it.

I particularly like both busker pictures but buskers, street venders and the like is a subject that I do like to capture. I would add that the EXR setting opted almost exclusively for large apertures mostly around f3 - f4 so the sharpness that you both comment on is the result of a very good optic at such large apertures. I look forward to trying some landscapes on a tripod with a much small aperture....

PS: I think earlier in this thread I was talking about compromises....take it from me, it is no compromise to opt for the X10 when the X20 had been the preferred choice.