This should make you think...

[BillH]

One sunny day a few weeks ago in Lecce, I was standing outside a restaurant after lunch in between court sessions, and I was having my usual after dinner cigarette, when a lady and a group of tourists went past.
I overheard her say how this particualr part of the town was built in 1498.
Above me was one of the typical balconies for these houses, and I noticed something odd, so I photographed it.

later I asked about and it was confirmed that this information was correct, so I said that the balconies must have been changed at some point, but I was told no, all the external features are original and the town is very proud of this.

So, can Anyone spot what is wrong here...? (Click on the picture for larger image)



The Clue is in the date..
And that is why I am number One conspiracy theorist
Jayway is excluded from this, as she knows the answer...

[Grandad]

Bill, are you including the steel balustrade? That is certainly not 1498

[Horus]

Nice to see you back Bill
Mmm, So apart from the date that would indicate the Portugese explorer Vasco de Gama, I am at a loss as to what your latest conspiracy theory is, but it is bound to be wild.

[BillH]

Funny you should mention the steel ballistrade Grandad.. I said the same thing..If looks could kill was the expression on the historian's face when I asked that question..

I suppose Horus, it's not really a conspiracy, but something is so wrong here that it begs a question and a rational answer.

I have a habit of spotting these things and pondering the possibilities, infact even the locals don't notice this. How odd

The answer is on ONE the faces on the base the supports...
there are six of them, look at them all for reference..

The one I am interstested in is on the far left..
Lets take a closer look...

[Horus]

Well you are going to have to elaborate Bill Even if I blow up the photo by 500% there is nothing to see other than the erosion around the eyes that may from a distance look like he is wearing spectacles, but as the adjacent figure is starting to show the same erosion and he too will soon be wearing specs, then I don't suppose that is it.

[BillH]

You got it Horus
The Specs are not as a result of erosion though, I have seen it close up.
They are certainly in relief, the eyes of the others are quite clear.
Sadly my phone doesn't take great pictures. I will be going back soon, and will take my camera to get a really good shot of it, so that you can see what I saw.

When I pointed it out to one of the people I was with, who lives there, she said that she had seen it and it was a talking point years ago, she had forgotten all about it until I reminded her she said.

Visual aids made form Crystal were used back then, but not in spectacle form.

Now, it is possible that this man was a bit ahead of his time and this was simply a one off that he himself designed, because as I understand it, he is one of the people responsible for the design of property and planning of the streets 15th century Lecce.

[Horus]

I can't buy that one Bill, a quick glance will show you that the position of the so called 'spectacles' is way too high on the face. Peoples eyes are not that high above the bridge line of their noses, I would be interested to see a good high resolution picture next time you visit.

But out of interest:
The earliest pictorial evidence for the use of eyeglasses is Tommaso da Modena's 1352 portrait of the cardinal Hugh de Provence reading in a scriptorium. So that is at least 146 years before your sculptures were made.

[BillH]

You are of course correct...
It is odd though, and this is mainly the point that I try to raise....

I have seen pictures of people ( usually high ranking religious leaders ) and in your case a king, wearing glasses even as far back as the 12th Century. I have maybe seen about 7 of these, no more than that. Infact some pictures look as though the glasses were added afterwards, as they appear crudley painted by comparison of the face and clothing.

These "early" glasses were made of Crystal and I doubt that they were of much use for corrective vision.

Stained Glass was used in church windows way back, but clear glass that was known as "polished" did not arrive on the scene in Europe until 1688, or there abouts, before it could be used for windows.
I once lived in a house with the original 17c Glass, and you certainly didnt get a clear view through them.

To get it to a standard where one could actually use it for corrective vision took about another 40 years, so now we are knocking on the door of the 18th Century..

SO, why would a very few certain people be seen wearing glasses that quite frankly would have been no use back in those days..???

[Horus]

Fascinating Bill, especially when you think that someone took all the trouble to come back and paint some glasses on a painting of a guy who would have been dead for at least 100 years just to show him wearing glasses. Why? What would it prove? Is it more likely that a picture that was painted of a man obviously reading a manuscript and wearing some type of eye glasses is genuine, or that someone came back and painted then onto the picture 100 years later? Maybe it’s a ‘Specsaver’ advertisement.

On a more practical note, the Egyptians and the Chinese have been polishing rock crystal since way before that date and even single pieces of glass, yes glass, were polished to make lenses to read with by moving it over the paper, very similar to today’s glass paperweights.

[BillH]

Server error double post sadly not the first or second attempted one..
I must remember to cut and paste my replies into notepad before posting.....
Contingency..saves a lot of frustration...

[BillH]

I didnt actually say they painted them afterwards, they just dont seem to flow with the style of the painting..so it looks that way, like a kid with a crayon.. I have been trying to find the pictures. i have the link on my home PC, just cant remember the search pattern I used to find it.. You'll see what I mean...

"On a more practical note, the Egyptians and the Chinese have been polishing rock crystal since way before that date and even single pieces of glass, yes glass, were polished to make lenses to read with by moving it over the paper, very similar to today’s glass paperweights".


I wonder how they acheived the temperatures to make the glass so clear and pure..Interesting..tell me more about the ancient glass makers please..

'Scuse the reply it got cut down somewhat.. I had to re write it 4 times the first two attempts were much more detailed... Will to live and all that..... damn server error

[Horus]

I wonder how they acheived the temperatures to make the glass so clear and pure..Interesting..tell me more about the ancient glass makers please..

Bill, I never said it was pure, merely that they polished glass, quite how good this was I do not know.
Not unlike early mirrors being made from polished copper, not much use in my opinion, but I suppose we have to start from somewhere. Crystal lenses would be nowhere near as good as modern glasses, but if you had poor eyesight then anything is an improvement. Glass making has never really been a problem, it is the technique of making it flat that needed to improve, most glass was blown as a bubble that was stretched into a cylinder and cut down its length. This was reheated and allowed to open up as a flat sheet, a costly and not very efficient method that resulted in very opaque glass due to the ripples. This was resolved by the likes of Pilkinton’s who perfected the art of flowing it over a bed of molten silver to obtain the perfect flatness of modern glass. Dropped glass is another matter and is just a blob dropped onto something flat, this is not difficult to polish and apart from some impurities will not look dissimilar to a modern paperweight, but with a magnifying effect.

[Grandad]

Interesting how you two have taken the topic from 1498 to the 1950's and beyond. I think we have all learned something from your exchanges, keep it going.

One point of correction Horus, the float process uses tin as the float medium. Apart from the fact it is much cheaper than silver it has a melting point of around 450C whereas silver is mid 1700's, too hot for the glass which is molten at 1200 and reduced to 600C as it enters the lehr..

[Horus]

You are of course correct Grandad it was Tin and I was in a hurry with my reply as our friend Bill has many posts to respond to, however I should have known better as I worked on some of the prototype equipment sometime in the late 60's as I recall. Mind you with todays metal prices, silver would probably be cheaper to use.

[Grandad]

Mind you with todays metal prices, silver would probably be cheaper to use

Only problem H, the glass would still be molten at the take off end of the bath.

And on the subject of using molten metal in manufacturing processes, I had some experience of tinning and soldering all the components on PC boards by the wave solder method. Probably still used and much quicker than a soldering iron.

Haven't we come a long way from bespectacled fifteenth century gargoyles.

[Horus]

I think they still use that method for soldering the back of circuit boards, although around my area the method was always refered to as 'Flow Soldering' rather than wave, but that goes back to the days of companies with names like English Electric, sadly long gone.

I agree with the last point Grandad, if we were a radio program called "Just a Minute" we would all get buzzed for 'Deviation'

[BillH]

One of my first jobs was designing PCB's.. Small World isn't it ??

BUZZZZZZZZZZZ




Let's agree on this then.

I think it would be fair to say that back then ( 1500 ) 99.9999 % of the population had never seen a pair of spectacles, and that they were not commonly referred to..

I will find out more about this Gargoyle on my next trip, as I should be doing an overnighter in Lecce, thus giving me plenty of free time, and there are some more things I need to photograph to show you as they baffle me.. maybe I can get some answers here.

[Horus]

Let's agree on this then.

I think it would be fair to say that back then ( 1500 ) 99.9999 % of the population had never seen a pair of spectacles, and that they were not commonly referred to..

I would agree with that, but .................... if you wanted to be seen as an educated and sophisticated scholar back in 1500, maybe you would want to be portrayed wearing glasses to impress the peasants!

Look forward to your next lot of pictures.