Strikes and juries

[Jayway]

Today the Junior doctors strike for better conditions. This UK news. Also is the Hillsborough disaster, this happened in 1989 and 96 football fans died. I would stand with the junior doctors, but as for this rehash and the longest running court case ever, what is this for ? The people are dead and buried, get over it. Is it because the relatives are after money ? ? As for the ridiculous interview of relatives, I found sickening, so I am sure its greed - - -

[Grandad]

I am not impressed with the hospital gate rabble.......tones of the days of Arthur Scargill

As supposedly intelligent educated people they do not do anything for their cause IMO.

As for Hillsborough Jay, I agree. It is all about compensation. It was a tragedy that should not have happened but then the witch hunt goes on. I hope today will bring closure after 27 years....

[Horus]

I tend to agree with you Jay, disasters happen all the time and although tragic there does seem to be an unending attempt by some people to lay the blame on someone else. Whatever actually happened was not an intentional thing and if you choose to be part of several thousands of people all attempting to get to the same place at the same time then you must be aware of potential risks of being there. Someone made a decision on trying to control a huge crowd, whether that decision was the right one or not is a matter of history, all we do know is that several thousands of people all tried to get into a space that could not contain them. There is always a back to any queue and that means that many people who had no one behind them must have continued to keep pushing forward in an attempt to get in and that contained the crush, watch any store opening its doors during a sale and you have your answer. Many people are passionate about football and that passion often continues when they are pursuing a cause, this to me is another example of that, a good example of wanting to keep something going for whatever reason. Many people die in tragic circumstances every day, most people have lost someone dear to them through a tragedy, but we have to deal with it and get on with life.

Again with the junior doctors, I also have mixed feelings towards this as I do believe that anyone requiring care at the weekend is less likely to get the same standard as in the week. I speak from experience of being in hospital over a weekend and being aware that most things stop because it is the weekend, so many tests and procedures do not get carried out until it is a weekday. The NHS has some very expensive equipment and services that would be better employed on a 7 day basis and not closed down over the weekend. For that reason the service should be run on a 7 day basis and anyone working in that profession should be aware of that, people in other 24/7 industries have to adjust their life styles to cover the job they do and many work on a rolling shift basis of several days on and several days off, their pay reflects this and there is no premium time for working on certain days. Now no one is saying that a doctor must work for 7 days, only that they must cover a 7 day period and providing that there are sufficient doctors (and that's another matter) then I don't see what the problem is. Exactly 3 years ago today on a Friday evening I had to sit in a waiting room knowing that my wife had almost certainly died, but because she was taken by ambulance to the resuscitation unit of the local hospital and there was only one doctor there to cover the urgent admissions, I had to wait for over two hours before he had enough free time to come and tell me she was in fact dead, now that should not happen to anyone. I do not blame the doctor, his priority was the living and no doubt after his initial diagnosis he had to move on to the ones he could save, maybe a car accident or other trauma, but this meant he had no time to speak to me so I was left in limbo for several hours. We also need our consultants to be doing a better job, yes they are good at what they do, but many have an attitude of bestowing their time on the NHS rather than actually working for it full time. A lot of things need a good shake up and most of it would not cost money, stop doctors from swanning about wearing everyday clothes with just an open smock and a tie hanging out, stop nurses from travelling to work wearing their uniforms and bring back the Matron to oversee the wards instead of managers

[Jayway]

I am happy that Horus and Grandad have opinions. I posted similar to L4u, sadly not one person has an opinion on british avarice

[Grandad]

Horus I had realised what date this is, I had a note on my pad, but as you have mentioned it I will just say we are thinking of you. Have a quiet day mate.....

[Kiya]

I always think of you Horus on this day losing your dear wife as I think of my Ma it being her birthday today.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Have a good day H. Good remembrances and recollections, take it easy and look after you.

[Horus]

Thanks for all your kind thoughts folks, I do always find the next few hours difficult to cope with, so between 6 & 7 pm I try not to be in the house and sit looking at the clock, stupid I know, but some things you just cannot help replaying in your head. I have not taken Annie out today because the weather has been so foul, cold winds and at times driving rain and even traces of hail, but around 5.30 I will wrap up warm and go for a walk, it will be quiet along the Salt Line and the rain on my face will hide my feelings and once the witching hour has passed I will have lots to do. Annie will be covered in muck and mud and very wet, so she will need a quick 'half bath' in a bowl of warm water in the drive and a rub down with a nice big towel, after that I will fix us both a bit of dinner.

[Robbo70]

Probably time for me to step away from these forums. I had a ticket for that game, I gave it away, and the young man i gave it to never came home. Today was nothing to do with money, it was to do with fighting for 27 years to clear the name of the supporters who were blamed for the tragedy. Today they were finally cleared. If you think it was about money then fair enough. I shall remember the 96 elsewhere.

[Robbo70]

I am happy that Horus and Grandad have opinions. I posted similar to L4u, sadly not one person has an opinion on british avarice

I have an opinion on your opinion. Its very very low.

[Horus]

No need to step away Robbo, you are just as entitled to an opinion as are others. These things tend to be very personal and of course they are a tragedy, but as I pointed out many more tragedies happen every day and many injustices happen and just because it is dear to your heart does not mean that others may not see it differently. After so many years all it has done is lay a blame at someone's door, how exactly has that helped? Those people who were there at the time are quite aware of the circumstances that led up to it and regardless of who or why it does not bring them back, so what other motives are there or what else is to be gained by dragging this on for nearly 30 years? I don't know the answer other than it may give the families involved some sort of settlement, if that is so and there it ends I could accept it. However I am quite convinced that we will now see some mega claims being brought against those deemed responsible whether that be the club, or the Police, or even the Ambulance service for some sort of negligence, so it does bring into question the motives of some people. I also have to agree that seeing some of those relatives outside the court whooping and cheering, clad in supporters colours and clutching framed photographs did seem a little undignified under the circumstances and resembled football supporters celebrating a win rather than a triumph of justice, but then again that is just my opinion.

[Grandad]

Probably time for me to step away from these forums.

I hope not Robbo. We often have differences of opinion on here but I think I can say that we are all entitled to our opinions and we tend to accept them for what they, just opinions.

Hillsborough was the most tragic event to happen at any sporting occasion but, on the day things were done and decisions taken which at the time were considered in the best interest of the situation. i.e. The crowd still trying to get into the game.

But even now the matter is not closed. There will be cases brought against individuals involved and I am sure it will still be in the news in ten years time. It has now been decided in court that the crowd bore no responsibility for the deaths and injuries. Is it not time to leave it there?

[Robbo70]

Its not the opinions or differences of them thats got me riled. Its the way they are worded and the comtempt for those who have fought for 27 years to clear the names of their children and spouses.

Take care all

[Horus]

There is no answer to that logic I'm afraid Robbo, but do take care yourself and of course Omar

[LovelyLadyLux]

I'm not following this thread particularly well as I'm not aware of what the Hillsboro incident is or was however on ever incident and matter that happens there are (for lack of a better word) winners and losers. Some are happy that the winner win and others are happy the winners lose and all manner in between. I also think it is ok we all post ALL of our opinions genuinely. Whilst I might not agree with everything everybody posts they do have that right to express them however I wouldn't walk away from anything just cause somebody posts something once I happen to disagree with.

I'd hate to see you go Robbo - your thoughts opinions expressions are pretty valid and interesting to me. Walk from this thread please but not the entire Forum.

[Grandad]

Of late, strikes have seemed to be things of the past, but the militancy of the junior doctors brings back memories of days gone by. I don't know the finest detail of the proposed new contracts but I do understand that doctors would receive a generous increase in pay although they would receive less for working unsociable hours. But we live in a 24/7 society and the health service should be available at these changing times.

Most other services like X-ray, CT scans, endoscopy, and others are all available 7 days a week and available, at least in my local hospital, from early morning to very late evening.

I am not impressed by the mostly young doctors who are demonstrating with their placards and chants at hospital gates. About a third of junior doctors have reported for work during this strike. A 'Junior Doctor' is any doctor below Consultant, even registrars and senior (by rank) doctors. I would guess that those who have chosen to work are in these two categories, mature and experienced doctors who perhaps have a better understanding of the changes required. In the end their will no doubt be some compromise but both sides need to accept that they both will need to give ground and come down from their single minded stance, particularly Jeremy Hunt who I doubt has any experience in Industrial Relations.

We have another strike on Souther Rail right now. There is a proposal for single manned, conductor less trains and the union is claiming that this puts the trains and passengers at risk. I have sympathy for this dispute and do not think that single man trains (driver only) is the right way to go. So they have my support.

[Horus]

I largely agree, I am all for progress but some of this just seems to be a money saving exercise for the operators with no concern for the public. I like to see a person of authority on all sorts of transport, their job is to keep order and see that people behave properly and to sort out any problems, a driver is a driver and should not be asked to multi-task and police a train or a coach.
As for the junior doctors, I think that they have now lost public support with this latest strike action, no one really likes people in important service jobs taking it out on the general public to achieve their own aims.

[A-four]

Although it is very rare for me to comment on this site, I have always viewed it as the friendly site, but I feel I should make comment here.

Yes, Jayway can have that opinion of the families who lost their loved ones all those years ago, yes, it can be put down to that persons ignorance, or even stupidity, but for the rest, who I have always regarded as a intelligent group, your comments are unbelievable.

To lose someone you love is one thing, but when you know their death was an official cover-up, you fight on and on, to get real justice. After 27 year that glorious day arrived,...........would none of you bloody jump for joy.

A-Four.

[Horus]

A4 I have replied in full to you over on the Blue side, as I said before leaving your obvious emotions out of it, we are all permitted our opinions without being insulted by you.

[LovelyLadyLux]

I was not aware of this incident 27 yrs ago and don't really understand all the dynamics of it now. It definitely seems to have emotions running high.

The point of my writing here (and do please take it out of the context of this Hillsborough incident) is that I'm ok with everybody expressing their opinion on any matter. Doesn't make their opinion right or wrong it is simply their opinion on whatever issue their expressing an opinion about.

Again I have no knowledge of this particular matter. Seems it was a terrible tragedy of the kind that cannot ever be really remediated. I just hope that whatever brought it again to the forefront can give closure to those involved.