Malaysian Flight

[LovelyLadyLux]

Apparently the released info is something in the order of 43 pages. Am sure there will be controversy over the data too as one will interpret it on way and somebody else another. IMO the release of the data was more to provide 'something' to the families than anything else.

I'm leaning more now that all the passengers were off'd and the plane landed somewhere and is now flying as a BA to Luxor!!

[Grandad]

I'm leaning more now that all the passengers were off'd and the plane landed somewhere and is now flying as a BA to Luxor!!

There is still no evidence to say otherwise LLL. Shouldn't make light of a tragedy but without any evidence all possibilities are still open.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Heard a snippet on the News tonight.

Apparently the investigation has now ruled out all the passengers and everybody except the pilot. They have now found that the Pilot, who was a meticulous record keeper had no journal or calendar entries for after the date of the flight and his flight simulator (?) has now indicated that he has on an on-going basis practiced landing on small island runways.

Seems the Pilot is now Suspect #1

[Horus]

I think from the start he has been suspect number one, no voice communication, trackers switched off, data removed from his flight simulator. Now with this latest info they will probably find out he attempted to put the plan down on such a small island runway (maybe as part of a terrorist plot) but crashed into the sea or on land and that may explain the lack of any wreckage. Most small islands or atolls have very steep drop into very deep water that surrounds them because they literally sit on a mountain top, so any wreckage would not spread out as it would in open ocean and probably sink very quickly to a great depth.

[Ruby Slippers]

Of course, the theory that the plane was taken to Diego Garcia could also be true!

[Horus]

Or even the Bermuda Triangle

[LovelyLadyLux]

This is Conspiracy Theorist LLL However seriously another Malaysian flight has been shot down. Wouldn't the area over the Ukraine have been labelled a no fly zone? And, if so, WHY would this plane be there?

Sadly there were 295 people on this plane. Another tragedy. Second tragedy in a short period of time. Sad sad sad sad sad.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Turns out this second Malaysian airplane is indeed another tragedy that seems to have been orchestrated directly by Russia.

What should be done with this aggressive act?

[Horus]

The real answer would be a unified response from Europe that impacted upon them directly, but will it happen? ..................... Er no. The French will still continue with the ships they are building for them and the Germans are too scared of losing the natural gas that Russis supplies, so it will be a weak and inefective response as usual. The only thing that Russia understands is strength and that will never come from Europe, I don't mean agression, but rather a firm and united implimentation of sanctions that actually hurt them even if we lose out on some aspects. He may have been seen as a a bit of a bumbler by some, but for certain Ronald Reagan knew how to make them sit up, once he threatened them with a new arms race with his 'Star Wars' defence system they knew they could not compete financially and things started to improve. The problem with Putin is that he is old style KGB and he weilds his power and has little time for being liked, he preferes to show the West a tough stance and while he gets away with it then nothing will change.

If Europe were to start implimenting a new plan to be more self sufficient in energy supplies with the clear implication that it will cease buying from Russia and start to strengthen its military presence on the European borders with Russia it would get his attention. Seriously scale back on any investments they are allowed to hold in the West from property to bank accounts and impose severe travel restrictions, all this would add pressure, but the truth is that it will not happen, Europe has too many countries with a self interest to act in unity, another reason we should get out of the EU.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Quite agree H. If the USA was to put out the message that ALL Russian banking, stock trading, investments etc were going to stopped NOW I'm sure they'd sit up and listen but Obama isn't about to make any statements about anything. Either he doesn't care, doesn't know what to do or thinks doing nothing is going to make Putin listen he is sadly mistaken. So long as Russia is allowed to do what they want this type of thing will continue.

My own fear is that doing nothing is only going to allow unsavory factions to gain strength until they grow into formidable forces to be reckoned with which WE might not be able to reckon with. Just wait 'til Iran goes nuclear!!

[Horus]

That's all we need no doubt the Israelis will bomb the crap out of their reactor first

[Grandad]

Turns out this second Malaysian airplane is indeed another tragedy that seems to have been orchestrated directly by Russia.

LLL, are you suggesting that Russia had anything to do with flight MH370 in March? If so, I think that is unfounded and in my opinion neither tragedy has any proven links to Russia, other than that MH17 MAY have been downed by a BUK missile.

I don't have any particular liking for Russia, or Russians (particularly those that I have come across on holiday), or Vladamir Putin; but in any situation such as this, fingers always point directly at Putin usually without any foundation.

I think the danger here is to confuse the downing of MH17 and the pro Russian rebel activities in eastern Ukraine. From day one my immediate suspicion was that MH17 was probably downed by inexperienced BUK operators working with unreliable data supplied from a tracking station that MAY have been in Russia. That is just my thoughts and until some concrete evidence is provided I will leave it at that.

The internal conflict in eastern Ukraine is another matter and I have no doubt that Putins hand is all over that. As Horus said, he is old KGB who go in anywhere with heavy boots over anyone who gets in their way. I also agree with H that the weak and limp wristed sanctions will have little effect and I am sure that Putin is not losing any sleep over them.

But make no mistake, the actions in eastern Ukraine combined with the downing of MH17 make that area a tinder box and without very careful handling could so easilly turn into WWIII. Just check the history of how WWI started......

[LovelyLadyLux]

@ Grandad - no, my wording wasn't good. Second tragedy for Malaysian Airlines. Russia may be involved with the second downing.

Initially here it was broadcast that Russia was the villain in the shooting however that position was changed.

I'm kinda like you in that I think it was inexperienced operators who didn't know what they were doing however on discussion that aspect apparently with machines of that calibre there are enough checks and balances in place to preclude that. As I'm totally uninformed re: weaponry I'm basing my opinion on what I'm reading online (mostly coming from the USA) and seeing on TV News.

All that being said I can say re: Russians that once upon a work career for about a 2 year span I worked in an area that was heavily populated with Russian people. Most of the population I came in contact with where 60+ yrs and did have extremely bad health conditions having come from Russia where health care seemed (to me based on what I saw) non-existent. I can also say, as a group, I never met a group of people who lied and covered up more extensively. The cultural training we got in how to deal with this was to expect it as covering up, deceiving, telling lies, bullying etc is a way of life in Russia so this is basically learned from birth. (Big sigh here) I know I rather rolled my eyes at the time of this training but I also have to say I came away from my 2 yr experience with a changed opinion.

[LovelyLadyLux]

On another note I watched the ceremony in the Netherlands of the repatriation of the victims. Was very somber and dignified. No sound.

How tragic for 117 people, totally innocent, to have passed this way. Canada had 1 young man with a dual passport, 24 yrs old on his way to becoming a doctor. Very tragic and sad.

It was also horrific that these victims were left for over a week lying in a field. Sad all around.

[Grandad]

At last it would seem that the human remains are being treated with dignity in Ukraine and total respect when they are returned to Eindhoven. Now begins that long and difficult task of identification and no doubt DNA will be necessary because it seems that ALL human remains will go to Holland first.

Sadly there are still around 100 unaccounted for and, according to reports that I have heard, the area has now been virtually deserted. Hopefully a large contingent of western observers will be allowed to orchestrate and manage a thorough search of the whole area, large as it is.

There was a very moving moment at the opening of the Commonwealth games in Glasgow last evening when the whole auditorium stood in silence, and you could hear a pin drop. Great respect........

[Horus]

Although I did see a disturbing report this evening that was showing no one actually protecting the crash site and worse still in adjacent corn fields to the crash site there were farmers using combined harvesters!!!! Lets just hope there are none of the missing bodies hidden in those corn fields, that would be just to much disrespect and such a callous act in my opinion.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Haven't heard or thought about this for a long time but did see a quick clip that today they're going to start searching the Indian Ocean. Definitely hope something turns up soon. Must be awful for all the relatives not knowing. Be nice for them to have closure and it will also be interesting to know what exactly did happen to this flight.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Seems there is part of an airplane and possibly luggage that has washed up and is presently under going analysis.

Any bets that this IS from the missing Malaysian airliner?

Definitely hope it is so all those people involved with this missing flight can finally get closure.

[Horus]

I reckon its a certainty, the wing part is from the same type of aircraft and saying as only one of that type has gone missing over the sea, then almost the odds are at about 100% that it is MH370. It has now arrived in France so probably by today we will know for certain once they check the part numbers on the wreckage.