Three Holy Men and a Bear

[LovelyLadyLux]

I'm trying to make a point here so please bear (no pun intented) with me.....

The JOKE:





Three Holy Men and a Bear

A Catholic Priest, a Baptist Preacher and a Rabbi all served as Chaplains
to the students of Northern Michigan University at Marquette in the Upper
Peninsula of Michigan .

They would get together two or three times a week for coffee and to talk
shop.

One day, someone made the comment that preaching to people isn't
really all that hard. A real challenge would be to preach to a bear.

One thing led to another, and they decided to do an experiment. They
would all go out into the woods, find a bear, preach to it, and attempt to
convert it to their religion.

Seven days later, they all came together to discuss their experiences.

Father Flannery, who had his arm in a sling, was on crutches, and had
various bandages on his body and limbs, went first.

"Well," he said, "I went into the woods to find me a bear. And when I
found him, I began to read to him from the Catechism."

"Well, that bear wanted nothing to do with me and began to slap me
around. So I quickly grabbed my holy water, sprinkled him and, Holy Mary
Mother of God, he became as gentle as a lamb. The Bishop is coming out
next week to give him first communion and confirmation."

Reverend Billy Bob spoke next. He was in a wheelchair, had one arm and
both legs in casts, and had an IV drip.

In his best fire-and-brimstone oratory, he exclaimed, 'WELL, brothers, you
KNOW that we Baptists don't sprinkle! I went out and I FOUND me a bear.
And then I began to read to my bear from God's HOLY WORD! But that
bear wanted nothing to do with me."

"So I took HOLD of him, and we began to wrestle. We wrestled down one hill,
UP another and DOWN another until we came to a creek. So I quickly
DUNKED him and BAPTIZED his hairy soul. And just like you said, he
became as gentle as a lamb. We spent the rest of the day praising Jesus..
Hallelujah!"

The Priest and the Reverend both looked down at the Rabbi, who was lying
in a hospital bed. He was in a body cast and traction with IVs and monitors
running in and out of him. He was in really bad shape.

The Rabbi looked up and said: "Looking back on it, ....circumcision may not
have been the best way to start."

***Ok - now that this has been read AND it refers to THREE mainstream religions talking about religion persons 1) is this at all offensive? 2) Even if we're talking about 'religious persons' does this in any way demean/belittle to the point where it should not be done? 3) What do you think the reaction would be IF one of these three Holy Men had been an Imam?

[Horus]

Hit the nail on the head there LLL, the rest of the religions would just take it as it was intended, ie. a joke, the Jews in particular often poke fun at their own religion and Rabbi jokes are quite common.

[Grandad]

Does it not come down to religion being 'optional' or religion being 'imposed'.

The former 'lightens' religion in the eyes of the general public and there is more tolerance between believers and non believers, and those in between. The latter is more intense and indoctrinated to a point that it raises emotions at the slightest indication of joke or ridicule.

[Horus]

That's a very good point Grandad.

[LovelyLadyLux]

True Grandad, good point.

I just don't 'get' why there is such extreme offense taken anytime anybody makes the slightest reference to the Prophet or anything on a religious vein re: Islam. I can't get my mind around 'why' Muslims can't seem to separate topics. Surely surely surely they have to understand the concept of a 'joke' and should be able to recognize a joke as a joke. Being able to actually think about something, criticize, comment on etc is necessary so as to prevent stagnation.

Having to accept without question and a quick step into fear is repressive.........

[Winged Isis]

A great joke! I got the same underlying theme as Grandad.

But, you must know and understand what the Quran says about respecting the prophet (I cannot help with examples) before you criticise the Islamic view on this. Muslims may not like it (who are we to assume they wouldn't find this or the suggested alternative version funny?), but can only view it in light of their beliefs. It is what they are taught to believe, and as good Muslims, they follow the teachings. There are no doubt many Christians and Jews who would find this offensive, too.

[Scottishtourist]

Best joke I've heard in long time LLL! Found it hilarious!
And that's from a Roman Catholic!!!
In my view,religion is a way of life and it would be a very sad world if life always had to be taken so seriously!!
How would we survive without a sense of humour in adverse situations?
I work for NHS and witness lots of harrowing incidents,serious situations and terminal illnesses.
We have hospital chaplains of all faiths who come in to "comfort"patients.They're fantastic and approach their work with compassion,dedication and most importantly...a sense of humour!Priests,Ministers,Rabbis.
They speak to every patient who wants a conversation,there are no barriers.
And for every one patient who finds solace and peace of mind in their bibles,catechisms,qurans and torahs(?),there are 10 who find the same qualities in a funny story and the ability to laugh at the idiosyncracies of their own religions!

[LovelyLadyLux]

@WI - I'm more than sure that some in the Bible Belt of the USA or born agains etc. WOULD find this offensive BUT they do not wage Jihad on innocent persons doing their jobs. They don't go and burn down embassies.

I think in Christianity there is a huge "moral majority" who recognizes the "super devout" carry on i.e. passing out pamphlets on the street, healing through faith, chanting "Glory Hallelujah" at the drop of a hat, pray at every meal etc etc (in other words doing much more extreme things in the name of their religion) and carry on "MORE" than the majority do in their daily lives. I also fully believe the Moral Majority are very tolerant BUT would IMMEDIATELY speak out against any Christian who committed a heinous crime in the name of Christianity. The Moral Majority do not sit with our heads up our bums and fail to speak out against our own IF and WHEN our own gets out of moderate parameters AND we also sanction and punish those who do act irresponsibly.

Where are all the moderate Muslims? I've never heard one moderate Muslim speak out about those who are committing jihad and torturing individuals prior to off-ing them. I hardly think the US Ambassador in Libya along with the TWO Navy Seals died an easy death. Is Morsey or any of the other Middle Eastern leaders speaking out against these terrorist who, in the name of Islam, attacked and killed these individuals? And did these individuals have anything to do with a movie trailer?

My point is that Muslims seeming seem to find many and anything offensive AND when they do personally 'find or feel' this they feel it perfectly OK to torture, kill, attack anybody and anything as they feel their religion has been insulted! Why can't they verbalize this outrage? Why can't they write a letter to one of their newspapers verbalizing their concern and outrage? Why can't they talk to their religious leaders asking for guidance (and I'd HOPE the better educated religious leaders are NOT directing them to react with physical aggression).......why do Muslims feel the need to react with physical violence and why do their mainstream members not decry the actions of the terrorists?

[Winged Isis]

[quote="LovelyLadyLux"]Where are all the moderate Muslims? I've never heard one moderate Muslim speak out about those who are committing jihad and torturing individuals prior to off-ing them. I hardly think the US Ambassador in Libya along with the TWO Navy Seals died an easy death. Is Morsey or any of the other Middle Eastern leaders speaking out against these terrorist who, in the name of Islam, attacked and killed these individuals? quote]

Moderate Muslims have been condemning these responses all over the media all over the world since they happened, including in your two countries. Here's just two examples from elsewhere:

"We are no less than Jews who defend their religion," Egypt minister
Egypt's minister of religious endowments says Muslims are no less than Jews who never tolerate any insult directed at their religion; Afifi also condemning use of violence to defend Prophet Mohammed
Ahram Online, Saturday 29 Sep 2012

Jews and Christians are 'infidels,' reiterates Salafist cleric
Minister of Endowment Talaat Afify said Muslims are no less than "Jews" who, when insulted, "get up in arms and accuse insulatorsof anti-Semitism," referring to a recent anti-Islam film and offensive cartoons of the Prophet Mohamed.
In a speech in a conference held Saturday in the city of Beni Suef, Upper Egypt, Afifi also condemned defending the Prophet Mohammed by "extremism, violence and torching embassies." These methods, according to him, do nothing but inflame an already explosive situation.

"That's why we had approached the UN to swiftly pass legislations criminalising blasphemy and sacrilegious acts to religious figures.

Early in September, an American-made movie portraying the Prophet Mohammed as a womaniser and a fool sparked a torrent of anti-American unrest in Egypt, Libya and dozens of other Muslim countries over the past two weeks, resulting in attempt to storm the US Embassy in Egypt and the death of the US ambassador to Libya.

Days later, obscene cartoons depicting the prophet Mohammed naked were issued in the French satirical magazine, Charlie Hebdo which further inflamed tension across the Muslim world.

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent ... igion.aspx


Australian Imams Unite Against Violence
SEPTEMBER 19, 2012

Australian Muslim imams (religious leaders) have been recently organising meetings to help discourage people from using any form of violence or threatening behaviour at protests.

Muslims gathering in a local mosque. Photo: Justin McManus
Since the blasphemous anti-Islam film that defames the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) surfaced, there has been outrage throughout the Middle East. There have been various protests that have led to deaths, violence and vandalism.

The imams are one of the many individuals and groups, who are helping change this. They have been highlighting the message that violence has no place Islam and protests must be peaceful.

Sheikh Mohamadu Saleem, a spokesman for both the Victorian board and the Australian National Imams Council, said,

“There is a consensus among the imams that demonstrations have to be peaceful, and that any violent protest has to be stopped immediately.”

More than 30 mosques around the region have been advised. Imams have also used Friday sermons to address the issue.

While condemning the provocative film, Muslim leaders around the world have denounced attacks on foreign diplomatic missions, calling for a measured response to the movie and those behind it.

http://www.blessedislam.com/news/austra ... -violence/

[Winged Isis]

My point is that **** Muslims seeming seem to find many and anything offensive AND when they do personally 'find or feel' this they feel it perfectly OK to torture, kill, attack anybody and anything as they feel their religion has been insulted! Why can't they verbalize this outrage? Why can't they write a letter to one of their newspapers verbalizing their concern and outrage? Why can't they talk to their religious leaders asking for guidance (and I'd HOPE the better educated religious leaders are NOT directing them to react with physical aggression).......why do **** Muslims feel the need to react with physical violence and why do their mainstream members not decry the actions of the terrorists?

If you were to insert the word "SOME" instead of **** then your (understandable) response would not be as extreme as the recent behaviour of the minority of Muslims who act this way. I'm sure many do write letters and many do speak to their imams, and do get a balanced reply. Violence is never the right way to protest, but we should not tar all Muslims with the same brush, just as we don't like them doing the same to Christians.

"Days later, obscene cartoons depicting the prophet Mohammed naked were issued in the French satirical magazine, Charlie Hebdo which further inflamed tension across the Muslim world."

I'm sure if similar was done to Jesus or Mary, the Christian reaction would be extreme in many parts of the world. I am in no way condoning the horrendous actions after this video and the cartoons, but if someone is stupid enough to publish such deliberately inflammatory rubbish, they should not be surprised at such extreme responses. The blood of those killed is on their hands. All religious symbols and leaders should be respected by all, regardless whether you believe in them or not, or how strongly you believe in your own. Respect is the key word.

[Horus]

WI, I would strongly disagree with:

The blood of those killed is on their hands.

The responsibility for those killed lies squarely on the shoulders of those who murdered them and no one else, perceived provocation or insults is no excuse. If their reactions are so severe that it results in religious zealots killing someone then they are the people responsible and not someone else and that applies to any religion. Did the blood of the victims of the Norwegian mass murderer Anders Breivik lie on the hands of the government who's immigration policies annoyed him? I would say not, he was just a murderer plain and simple as are the people you are alluding to.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Ok I should have inserted the word 'some' but my point still stands in that there are far more Muslims moving immediately to violence than are people ascribing to other religions. I don't see letters to the editor being published, they are not talking 'on camera' to news media directly objecting to the horrendous acts of their countrymen.

There IS a strong thread in Muslim society whereby one Muslim does NOT interfere in the lives/actions of another. This has allowed, for instance, the brutalization of women to continue. A man can brutalize his wife and others will not interfere to stop this. I think that this cultural norm contributes to these other horrendous acts to continue without the 'moderating effects' of others.

Keefy even posted a thread on the blue showing Morsey scratching his privates. Comments include others indicating this is common practice - BUT - WHO in Arab society is going to point out that this is a rather disgusting practice? Women are definitely not going to say anything (as it is quite convenient that women are forbidden to even LOOK at another man) and men sure are not going pick up the mantra to stop scratching, picking their nose and/or engaging in another outburst..........

[Horus]

I saw that video, perhaps we should all object to his insulting behaviour in front of our wives, sisters, daughters etc. all of who may have been watching him at the time. In the society that I come from it is considered a grave insult to scratch your nuts on TV, I shall be doing a one man riot outside of the Egyptian embassy in London tomorrow, weather permitting of course.

[LovelyLadyLux]

WAITTTTTTTT!!

It just came to me (old brain syndrome) that when I replied to WI and I said I should have said "SOME" - well NO I do NOT want to say "SOME" and imply only a FEW...........I'm standing by what I first said.........Firstly you've lost about 50% of the population in that Islamic women are not able to really say or do much about the violent reaction of their men and of the remaining Islamic population the majority of Muslims do NOT denounce the actions of those who react violently.

As I said they're not writing letters to the editor extolling 'tolerance', they're not forming lobbying groups to lobby Morsey (for example), they're NOT actively speaking out against their own re: the violent actions of some. The majority of Muslims - those ascribing to Islam are not speaking about about those who commit heinous violent acts........in part this is because their own political regimes would immediate act against them throwing their butts in jail. That Muslims are not, by and large, in a space to police their own tacitly allows these violent behaviors and actions to continue

(sorry WI - my immediate response to your response was made too early over no coffee. The brain is in gear now so I'm back to my original premise)

[LovelyLadyLux]

@ H - I think you're correct - scratching your nuts on TV IS insulting to us and should be worth at least a bonfire in front of the Egyptian Embassy.

I've been gravely insulted therefore I should be able to wreak havoc by throwing a few bricks through the Egyptian Embassy window and spray painting a few Tags on their walls.......

Actually when 'we' speak with Islamic leaders I can see that we all sit with our feet glued to the floor and our women announcers invariably cover their hair. We at least make 'gestures' that show we are trying to respect their culture and sensibilities. Do they do this for us?

Nooooooooooo - instead they seem to play on the fact they know we are sensitive to their needs and take a foot for ever inch they perceive they can get...........might as well have picked his nose too............