Horus wrote:Thanks for the reply Ra-Mont,

I read your link that Kevin gave you, but I am not sure what I am suppose to make of it or even how it supports your theory, maybe I have missed something?
Horus, I posted that link so that you could compare the bright vibrancy of an Old Kingdom royal tomb with the hell-hole dankness of any pyramid 'sarcophagus chamber' (so called) and ask yourself whether any sane Egyptian king would really want his remains consigned there for eternity. I thought my point was clear but you obviously missed it.
Horus wrote:Your theory seems to be that the pharaohs were buried elsewhere other than in their actual tombs, if so then why do we have the various mummy caches of past Pharaohs simply recovered from their tombs in the VOK? What made their ‘other’ location any safer than their assumed tombs, especially if they had to be removed at a later date by the priests for safe keeping elsewhere?
No, my theory is that the pyramids were never intended as tombs. I don't claim the same for VoK burials.
Horus wrote:Your reference to utterance 264 in supporting your theory is also a little frail, the East is always the direction of rebirth and the West of the dead, it has always been so in Egyptian mythology, so naturally a king or god would be reborn in the East. You seem to be basing all your theory upon texts that are themselves mythological in nature. All of the trials and tribulations and journeys are on a mythical journey of resurrection, they have little or no meaning or reference to actual events or reality. Everything from the ‘opening of the mouth’ ceremony to the weighing of the heart against a feather is all just ritual and myth. No pharaoh has ever really battled with Apophis or had their hearts devoured by Ammit (Ammut) so why should we attach any significance in the real world to any particular utterance from a tomb text? Indeed the Unas texts were the basis for the later tomb texts and the ‘Book of the Dead’ and having a quick flick through my own copy I can see very little in it that would pass for actual reality or fact.
You can choose to dismiss the importance of the Pyramids Texts if you wish, but believe that if properly interpreted they can tell us a great deal about what went on in those pyramids. They were obviously being recited during a ritual and the king's body must have been present throughout. They begin in King Unas' so-called sarcophagus chamber and are continued in his antechamber, then on to the pyramid exit where they conclude. That tells me that the king's body was taken back out at that point. The mythology in them was important so far as ensuring the king's resurrection and his well-being thereafter was concerned. The presence of those mythological themes doesn't, in my view, render the texts impossible to understand.
Horus wrote:I don’t wish to appear ungracious, but it would seem that the thrust of your book is that the Pyramids (and I assume you only mean the Giza complex) were not actually tombs, but something else? That in itself is not a new theory and had been gone over many times and really only hinges upon the lack of any real text to do with any particular Pharaoh, although we do have Khufu’s name scratched above the granite tomb chamber relieving blocks. Whether or not they were actually interned inside them is always going to be open to speculation, but the presence of sarcophagi, pits containing royal boats plus the elaborate lengths they went to in order to conceal and block the chambers leads me to believe they were. Your theory I assume is suggesting that after the embalming was complete (inside the pyramid) that they were then taken elsewhere to be buried discretely?
The theory I'm arguing here isn't overly important to my book but I don't think it applies to just the Giza pyramids. I think pyramids were meant to represent the mythological Mount Manu and, therefore, the owners of those structures would have had themselves buried to the east in a real mountain that represented Mount Bakhau, from which Ra supposedly rose daily. Those 'sarcophagi', I've already suggested, may have been a means to surround the dead king with natron prior to his bandaging. My reading of the Pyramid Texts does suggest strongly to me that that whole procedure was carried out in the pyramids. And yes, I think after that the kings were discretely buried in the east. The pits containing boats fit my theory very well. While Egyptologists assume those boats were there to ferry the king's
ka across the sky every day, I disagree. The king's journey was two-way, and if I'm correct, then his
ka travelled every night through the netherworld to his eastern mountain, to where his body lay -- and that would mean a boat journey too.
Horus wrote:If I have understood anything at all about the minds of Egyptian Pharaohs it is their vanity, each one wanted to be seen and remembered for their deeds and went to great lengths to publicise their building achievements, so why would they not want to be buried in the monoliths they created? If it were a simple diversionary tactic to protect the body, then why not just go through an elaborate procedure with any mummified body and leave it in an unguarded tomb for the robbers to plunder while you are secreted away elsewhere, no need for a massive pyramid as what purpose would it serve? The fact is that if we take the Giza pyramids out of the equation then all later Pharaohs were buried in their rock cut tombs, this is well enough documented and only removed after robberies took place, there are even papyri that describe the interrogation and punishment of such tomb robbers. In them they describe how they entered the tombs, smashed open the sarcophagus, plundered the kings body of jewels and even set fire to the tomb furniture to retrieve the gold from it.
No argument from me on the vanity of Egypt's ancient kings. However, it must have concerned them deeply that after death they would be the focus of tomb robbers who were likely to destroy their remains. Their expertly-done mummifications tell us how important a well-preserved body was to their afterlife beliefs. Also, to Egyptian thinking, the very survival of the country depended on the king's survival in the next world. Those, I believe, would be sufficient motives for whatever it took to improve the king's chances after death. I'm pretty sure you're mistaken in claiming that after the Giza pyramids 'all later Pharaohs were buried in their rock cut tombs'. Many pyramids were built after the biggest ones at Giza and I think the kings who built them followed the twin mountain mythology and had themselves buried in an eastern mountain.
Horus wrote:The 'Leopold-Amherst Papyrus' records the testimony of the thieves who plundered the tomb of King Sekhemre II and his Queen Nubkhas of the Seventeenth Dynasty, the thieves confessed that they had broken into this tomb, here is a literal translation:
“We went to rob the tombs...and we found the pyramid of king Sekhemre Shedtaui, the son of Re Sebekemsaf, this being not at all like the pyramids and tombs of the nobles which we habitually went to rob”
Note that they are referring to robbing pyramids and tombs, it continues:
“Then we broke through the rubble...and we found this god (king) lying at the back of his burial-place. And we found that the burial-place of Nubkhaas, his queen, situated beside him...We opened their sarcophagi and their coffins in which they were, and found the noble mummy of this King equipped with a falcon; a large number of amulets and jewels of gold were upon his neck, and his head-piece of gold was upon him. The noble mummy of this King was completely bedecked with gold, and his coffins were adorned with gold and silver inside and out and inlaid with all kinds of precious stones. We collected the gold on the noble mummy of this god...and we collected all that we found on her (the Queen) likewise; and we set fire to their coffins. We took their furniture...consisting of articles of gold, silver and bronze, and divided them amongst ourselves.”
The above is interesting, though I'd prefer a look at the Egyptian text to see how the word 'pyramid',
mr, was determined here. But just how much is being revealed in that writing and what is being concealed? The Egyptians loved their secrets, which they obscured from view with cryptic writings. So, let us imagine that a bunch of 17th-Dynasty tomb robbers had stumbled upon the mountain tomb of King Sekhemre II. They may have been there originally on other business. A lot of digging went on in 'this place where the gods are born', so perhaps they got lucky. Anyway, they were obviously caught and put on trial. So, when it comes to recording the trial, how do the scribes avoid making obvious the real burial place of the king and his queen? If they used the word 'mountain,
Dw, then they've blown the whole thing. Since my theory holds that pyramids represented mountains, then
mr and
Dw would have been interchangeable when it came to talking about burials associated with them. The scribes, then, were perfectly in order in describing a mountain tomb as a pyramid.
Horus wrote:A further example can be read in ‘The Admonitions of an Egyptian Scribe’ (Leiden Papyrus 344) and contains the following translations of the hieroglyphs:
7.2 “Behold, he that was buried as a hawk is …………… ( ?) What the pyramid concealed is become empty”
7.3 “Behold a few lawless men have ventured to despoil the land of the kingship”
7.4 “Behold men have ventured to rebel against the Uraeus, the …….. (?) of Re, which passifies the two lands"
7.5 “Behold the secret of the land who’s limits were unknown, is divulged. The residence is overturned in a minute"
7.2 Is obviously a reference to the Pharaoh being Horus (the hawk) and "what the pyramid concealed" was the kings mummy, which is now missing
7.3 Is no doubt a reference to tomb robbers
7.4 "Rebelling against the Uraeus of Re", is another euphemism for the Pharaoh who wore the Uraeus on his crown.
7.5 A bit of speculation on my part here, but as all these texts appear in the same context as each other, then I would say that the "the secret of the land who’s limits were unknown" is a reference to the pyramid itself and the fact that it was now ‘divulged’ meant that it had been plundered. The "residence being overturned in a minute" could again be a reference to his tomb (his residence) being ransacked.
But there is no ambiguity about the first line, the Pharaoh was buried in a pyramid and it had been robbed!
I'm familiar with the above texts and have used some to support my theory in the 'pyramid' chapter of my book. I have no argument against the king being described as a 'hawk' in 'Admonitions', but if 'what the pyramid concealed is become empty' really does apply to the theft of a king's body (which I'm not convinced by) then again we could be seeing cryptology at work. For 'pyramid' read 'mountain'. Admonitions was written following the collapse of the Old Kingdom. The 'lawless men despoiling the land of kingship' and 'rebelling against the uraeus' may well have discovered the secret of the pyramids. And I think 'the secret of the land whose limits were unknown' is a reference to that secret, namely that the pyramids weren't tombs. The royal bodies were buried to the east. The flavour I get from Admonitions is one of blackmail. Did this lead to the Old Kingdom's downfall?
Horus wrote:As to the sarcophagi being used for either liquid or dry Natron there are several arguments I could counter against that idea. For example a body placed inside a relatively fragile alabaster sarcophagus and covered in dry Natron would be very difficult to extract again as the salt sets and forms a very hard crust which has to be broken, thus risking serious damage to both mummy and the sarcophagus. If it were filled with liquid, why no drainage hole? And why bother with a lid? In addition to those questions why would you intricately carve the outside and inside if it were going to be filled with the equivalent of dish water, what purpose would it serve? Why do the majority of them conform to the standard practice of painting the false eyes on the outside/inside to facilitate the Pharaoh looking out? Don’t forget he is not yet resurrected! I have seen and studied at close hand many sarcophagi and have even had a crafty lie inside of some and I am not even slightly convinced that they were used just the once for soaking a body, they are far too intricate for a salt bath.
Again, the sargophagi being used for natron soaking isn't vital to my theory, but their presence might be explained by that. The alabaster versions you cite above are New and Late Kingdom and I accept without question that burial practice had changed by then. I'm discussing the pryamid era and I don't believe such containers were associated with them. Ditto your 'false eyes'. I could be mistaken, but I think all of the examples found in pyramids have been made of granite, basalt and other hard stone. Ergo, the possibility remains that they were used in the preservation of the kings' bodies. Not all pyramid sarcophagi have been found with lids. But I suggested above that the lowering in of a 'sarcophagus' might have played a part in the 'distraction' part of a pyramid's role.
Horus wrote:Finally on this one, I have just had a quick count up of the pyramids and out of 37 of them I can assure you that at least 13 contained bits of mummy remains. Most were fragments and showed signs of burning, so if we assume that there must have been mummies in those 13 then it is not unlikely that there were also mummies in the others at some time. They could be other people and not Pharaohs I hear you say, fair enough, but many have other items that identify them with a ruler, such as a name on a fragment of coffin wood, an artefact, a shabti figure etc. even small copper impliments used in the opening of the mouth ceremony. The very fact that they were mummified, embalmed and bandaged in itself tells us they were not just the remains of commoners. Add to that the burnt and broken state of the remains also points to being a plundered mummy, (why would you plunder a potentially non valuable mummy?) so I would say, if it walks like a duck, if it looks like a duck and if it quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck, or in this case a royal mummy.
You say 13 out of 37 pyramids have held 'bits of mummy remains'. I suspect if you check you'll find that's more like body parts, some of which appear to have been mummified. As I said above, bits of body, even mummies, do not a pharaoh make. There are many explanations for their presence. Some, perhaps, are the remains of kings' loyal servants, interred in the pyramid to greet their master's
ka when it entered the pyramid every morning. They, too, would need good embalming if they were to perform that task for eternity. None of the human remains or artefacts you describe above are proof of a royal burial. A king's name on a coffin fragment? Perhaps the full text went: 'Ameny, follower of King Khafre, Lord of the Two Lands...' etc. So, where's Khafre?
Ushabti were thought to perform tasks for the king's ka, so any found in a pyramid need have no link with his body. The 'burnt and broken state' you describe of remains certainly doesn't point to their being plundered and set alight by robbers, at least not deliberately. There are surely few more certain way to commit suicide than to start a fire in a chamber deep inside a pyramid. However, if you wanted to kill an intruder to a pyramid a good way would be to arrange they start a fire by opening things they shouldn't. Around 90 per cent of fatalities from fire are caused by fumes. Booby traps?
Your theory that the pyramids served as royal tombs -- the one shared by the majority of Egyptologists -- would mean that the
ka of any king buried in one would rise from it in the morning to journey across the sky, winding up at day's end somewhere in Libya. It would then make its journey back via the underworld. That seems backwards to me. According to my theory, the king's body lay in his representation of Ra's eastern mountain and his
ka rose from it every morning in company with that god. It then descended into his specially built replica of Ra's western mountain at nightfall and made the underworld journey back from there. Of course, royal burials later took place in the Valley of the Kings, but the mountain mythology wasn't lost. All the tombs there are in the vicinity of a natural mountain. Here again was the mythological western mountain of Ra. But now the royal bodies lay to the west, so the first daily task faced by kings from there would have been the journey west through the underworld. It's no mere coincidence then that very soon after the inception of the VoK as a royal necropolis one of the most important funerary texts was the
Amduat, or 'The Book of What is in the Underworld'. This was put on the walls of many tombs, the best version being in the tomb of Thutmose III. Later replaced by the 'Book of Gates', which was just a reworking, The
Amduat had one main role: to ensure the safe travel of its owner's
ka through the pitfalls and terrors to be found in the underworld. So, it's obvious that the king's
ka was meant to travel east through the underword to the mountain of Ra's rising. So, if any kings really had been buried in their pyramids, I'm sure there would have been similar texts and illustrations in the 'sarcophagus chambers' of all of them. No light matter, that danger-filled journey.
That mysteriously empty tomb of Queen Heterpheres I, could have several explanations. But one I've come up with is that she predeceased her husband King Snefru. She was then interred temporarily next to his pyramid until the great man himself died and was buried in his eastern mountain. So, with her true burial place becoming available, she was reinterrred beside him. I would remind you that Egyptologist Barbara Mertz has been much perplexed by this queen's empty sarcophagus, as well as ‘other sarcophagi found in place, unopened – and empty.' The lady doesn't buy the pyramid tomb idea either. Also, let us not forget that in 1950 Muhammad Zakaria Goneim found a sealed, empty 'sarcophagus' inside what he was sure was the undisturbed step pyramid of King Sekhemket. My theory explains how this could be, the theory which holds pyramids to have been tombs does not.
R.J.T.