What is your favourite animal?

[LovelyLadyLux]

I'm not at all thrilled when animal suffer either and some people should just NOT own animals. Lately I'm particularly perturbed with all the backyard dog breeders. Seems little tiny dogs go for a super premium price and the mixes are endless - doxichis, shipoos, poochis and on and on AND owners asking an absolute mint per poor pup. I'd feel kinda ok if there was a dirth of dogs and nobody could find one but seems the game here is to find any old male and female and then just breed the life out of them so as to produce as many pups as possible.

Actually 'til Jayway mentioned it I didn't think about taking the donkey for walk but to even be able to walk it up and down a ditch and let it nibble at anything green would probably increase its life enormously. Any chance of you being able to take it an tie it up for awhile somewhere else for a hour or two and then bring it back?

[Horus]

I am afraid that the problem with the Donkey is more to do with the Egyptian mind set than anything else, the owner is unlikely to see any benefit to himself in allowing the Donkey more freedom and the animals welfare is way down on his priority list.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Sadly you're right H. It is easy to suggest you can take it for a walk or buy a longer rope etc. The owner might OK a longer rope 'til he needed it for something else and then the donkey is back to standing about on the short rope again.

Actually this attitude to animals isn't only Egypt. I know in Trinidad most dogs automatically cringe and run away as they've been kicked, smacked and had enough stones thrown at them to know that they needn't be close to people. Lots of animals are tied out, parrots are kept in small home made cages - and the mindset there is that it is ALL A-ok. It bothers the life out of me to see all the mange ridden dogs, finding dead puppies that were thrown in ditches, dogs kept tied to a short rope for most of their lives, dogs that run and cower. Really bad and you can talk 'til you're blue in the face and people there just don't seem to get it. Animal rights are just not in their thinking.

[Mad Dilys]

I am afraid that the problem with the Donkey is more to do with the Egyptian mind set than anything else, the owner is unlikely to see any benefit to himself in allowing the Donkey more freedom and the animals welfare is way down on his priority list.

Having worked in a Veterinary practice and with the RSPCA I have never accepted that the UK is an animal loving country, nor ever will. The UK mind set accepts that animal rescue agencies are a necessary part of life and climaxes with the appalling incident at Crufts Dog Show when an obviously severely crippled German Shepherd was judged Best of Breed. What the other GSDs were like wasn't shown on the TV.

The funny thing is, that if you go deep into the countryside in Egypt, animals are much better looked after.

This was brought to my attention when in a balloon flying far away from tourist areas on a cold winter dawn. I saw that the large farm animals buffalo, cows and calves and donkeys were all wearing sacking coats. The goat kids were in heaps keeping each other warm, while the adult goats and sheep were corralled together in groups.

The dogs and cats are much better looked after than in the towns, but I'm afraid that as in the UK when I was a child excess kittens and puppies are disposed of at or soon after birth. There is more respect, in general for all living things.

Another thing I've noticed is the neatness of the little hamlets - no plastic bags, litter or other rubbish. I took an American friend who runs a tour guide business on a detour and she was simply amazed. She kept repeating "No plastic bags!".

I am speaking about the country I love, tribal Upper Egypt where people have self-worth but are no strangers to the discipline of their community. It's far from perfect, but it has worked for possibly thousands of years. Reminds me of ants - run where you please, but keep things clean in every respect and look after the community to the benefit of all.

The famous Upper Egypt hospitality is a case in point as a little hospitality - three days free board and lodging no questions asked, for travellers - prevents hostility in many cases.

I'm rambling, sorry.

[Mad Dilys]

I've found a link that shows the judging of GSDs at Crufts



But I prefer the dog that I have loved all my life The Saluki

I'd also like to say to those who think these dogs are starved, that in common with most of the sight hounds it is difficult to keep weight on them. Even when very old and not taking exercise they only put on a couple of pounds. It's just the way they are made, incredible athletes.

[Horus]

I take your point that not all animals in Egypt are neglected, but strongly disagree that we in the UK treat animals as badly, in some cases yes it does happen, but it seems pretty endemic in Egypt to me. The proof is what you see with your own eyes, I do not walk around this country being constantly aware of seeing animals abused, but in Egypt I see it everywhere, so sorry MD but in my book there is no comparison between us both when it comes to our attitude to animals, if that we re not the case there would not be so many wealthy vets in practices all over the UK.

[Mad Dilys]

Depends where you look Horus. Truly.

[Mad Dilys]

Strangely enough, apparently we are known in some countries as a nation of dog lovers and child abusers.

Oh the danger of generalization.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Here the UK is looked upon as being eccentrically over the moon in love with their pets! And going to great lengths to care for them and look after them be it a dog, cat or cow.

I'm inclined to agree with Horus that animal abuse in Egypt is pretty obvious however I could interchange the word abuse with neglect but really abuse and/or neglect is same same when it results in an animal suffering. I was relatively shocked to see so many horses with ribs sticking out, donkeys with sores, half wild dogs & cats wandering about. Not talking exclusively Luxor as it was pretty evident in and about Cairo too.

I went through a phase of thinking that maybe having starving animals on view was some sort of ploy to garner sympathy and hence extra money from tourists. My first tour of the Pyramids had horses there bleeding down their legs and ribs sticking out. Wasn't a pleasant sight and in my mind Egyptians are pretty astute at doing whatever it takes to gain any extra free $$ that might happen to fall their way.

HERE there are even petitions that go about as people don't want horses pulling buggies about anywhere near people as they breathe in the fumes from the cars. I'd hate to think what would happen police and criminal-wise if a carriage horse here had open sores and blood running down their legs.

On the topic of farmers and animals deep in the rural areas I think generally they're more apt to look after their animals better cause their animals are also their bread and butter. Not to say that a carriage horse isn't somebodies bread and butter but overall farm animals have to be overall healthy enough to breed, produce viable off-spring that will be sold off for profit. The poor carriage horses might be bred but it isn't the same as domestic animals on a farm under the control of a farmer who is relying on them for his finances.

[LovelyLadyLux]

I saw late yesterday but didn't read the article re: poor gimped German Shepard at the dog show. It looked awful and I thought to me that if that poor dog was the BEST in show I'd hate to see the WORST!

I think that entire venue needs investigating.

(@MD - I'll read your article tonight - haven't read it yet and didn't read the article attached to the photo yesterday. Just too late and me too tired)

[Horus]

I think the problem with the UK is that we DO investigate both animal cruelty and child abuse, contrary to many other countries Egypt included and as such we expose ourselves to ridicule because of our honesty. In countries such as Egypt there is no machinery or the desire to investigate and expose such cruelty and abuse so it generally goes unreported.

[Grandad]

I think horses are lovely animals and thoroughbreds elegant and beautiful. I have never been a big fan of horse racing although flat racing is more acceptable to me. I watched the 4.10 at Cheltenham over 3 miles and 6 furlongs with 32 fences. The horses ran for all their worth to a point of near exhaustion and possible heart failure. That sickens me.

Only yesterday at Cheltenham 3 horses had to be put down after suffering injury. If we care so much for our animals, both wild and domestic, what does horse racing say in this 'caring' reputation. All about money and gambling I suppose.

[Horus]

Most cases of cruelty come from those with vested interests such as racing and hunting in all its forms, that is why I say that in the main we in the UK are an animal loving society, I cannot speak for the commercial aspect, but that would be the same in any country where these activities took place as a passtime or a bussiness.

[Mad Dilys]

Thank you Grandad, I couldn't agree with you more, but Horus I think you will find that since the banning of live horses for slaughter most of the unwanted horses produced by Vested Interests now go direct for slaughter, since the cost of having an animal humanely destroyed and disposed of costs hundreds of pounds and they will actually receive more for sending the horse for slaughter in an abbatoir.

Children's ponies do not have the same slaughter value, so they are regularly permanently confined to stables or a muddy tiny outside area in all weathers with little or no exercise or attention.

When I was young I worked with horses, both in a riding school and in a top class showing yard. I had friends who worked in racing and thoroughbred stud yards and my best friend's daughter was riding in a leading dressage yard. My husband's Veterinary practice was mostly large animal so there was a lot of horse work. All in all I was lucky enough to get a true broad picture of the pro and cons of the horse world in the UK in which I have maintained an interest.

The poor horse in the "enlightened" UK still suffers from overbreeding, ignorance and neglect, which is why there are so many Horse Charities all struggling for funds and unfortunately most of the actual cruelty is perpetrated by ignorant people who like the idea of having a horse for their child, whether they have facilities or not.

Riding schools and children's ponies open up another weeping sore on the conscience of those of us that care, but are not in a position to bring in change.

Remember that the majority of horses wear a metal bit which works by putting pressure on the tender gums of the lower jaw behind the front teeth. Just have a look at this - out of sight out of mind like most animal abuse.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=race+ ... wQ_AUIBigB

[Mad Dilys]

PS The widely used Egyptian bit is horrendous and absolutely barbaric.

That doesn't excuse the use of equally barbaric bits by the European community.

[Horus]

All the things you mention will go on in all societies to a greater or lesser degree dependent upon the popularity of any such sport or activity in any given country. If we were to single out the Middle East we could add Camels and birds of prey to their side of the cruelty equation, so it is not as simple as quoting a dominant activity at any one place, you need to look at the overall picture. I define cruelty to animals by what I can see in the general population and as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, then cruelty also is. If I travel around the UK I will mostly see animals in fields enjoying a relatively good life and domestic pets in general being cared for. What I don’t see in Egypt is the same, I see overburdened Donkeys everywhere I look, horses not much better pulling huge loads and standing in the blazing sun while owners sit in the shade. Puppies and dogs tormented by children, horses being whipped, owners treading on a Camels lip to keep its head down on the floor, sheep transported on motorbikes, roof racks of cars and slaughtered in the streets. I do not go looking for this sort of thing, I see it on every visit, by comparison I cannot recall the last time I witnessed an animal being abused in the UK and believe me I would remember because I would not have remained silent about it had it occurred in my presence.

[LovelyLadyLux]

I think here we're a work in progress when it comes to animal care. I think most here try their best to provide for an animals need however there are still cases of cruelty popping up here and there. Often the worst here are the backyard breeders of dogs. Whenever a case is discovered the BCSPCA is on them like a load of bricks. I don't believed I have personally noted a single case of animal abuse here in years but I do have to concur with Horus that when I was in Egypt lots of cases just appeared before my eyes. I didn't go looking the cases just presented in front of me.

Here owning an animal comes with lots of rules and regulations so it would be extremely difficult to keep a horse or pony even unless you had suitable space and accommodation for it. Doesn't mean somebody somewhere doesn't have some poor pony tied up n a garage but by and large most large animals needs are met as they're governed by rule and regs. Doesn't mean interbreeding is not happening but again I think you'd really have to dig deep to find those cases.

I'd also add that IF you are found to be doing something against animal welfare here you'd be reported in a heart beat and nobody would be shy about giving proper instructions and rectifying the situation.

[Mad Dilys]

I personally have held dogs during treatment in the UK that have their nails growing right round and into their pads, and or hairless with advanced mange.

With long coats so matted across their anus that they couldn't pass a motion and blinded from the matted hair over their eyes, the inside of their ears a supporating, stinking mess. I wish I could say it was rare, but it isn't.

I have nursed frail starved animals of all kinds, which may also have been scalded, stabbed, half strangled, beaten or shot.

I have seen what happens when animals are rescued from behind closed doors away from pleasant country walks.

By the way, I'd like to repeat that in general wherever I have been rural folk tend to be kinder.

One of the big problems in Egypt with the calleches, is that so many drivers are employed for a pittance and don't own the animal. Really poor people are treated with contempt or indifference by most of the community as they have no commercial value.

[Jayway]

I have never used jointed bits on my animals, just a pelham on the top hole or on the bottom hole with a curb chain for control. I have always schooled my animals on voice commands and have no time for the world of circus that is called dressage or the corrupt business of jumping, racing, and rodeo with the electric anus probes for the bucking horses.

[Mad Dilys]

Totally agree Jay and what about gymkhanas?