Russian airplane disaster

[Grandad]

I don't know how true it is but Sisi said at a press conference that British security had requested permission to inspect security arragements at Sharm 8 months ago and this request was granted?

In the past when leaving Luxor I have often commented to Mrs G about the slack security arrangements. At the X-ray screens there m,ay be two or three uniformed security types chatting between themselves and not even looking at the screens.

If this is the final death knell to mass tourism in Egypt then only the Egyptians have themselves to blame.

[Horus]

We all know how slap dash the Egyptians are at most things, airport security is just one example. Basically they are happy to just sit on their backsides and do the minimum possible, most of them have a job to stay awake or take their eyes of their phone. In any event why is their security our problem? whether or not our people visited is irrelevant, security at their airports is their problem, but then again when did a Middle East country ever pass up an opportunity to blame someone else for their own short comings?

[LovelyLadyLux]

IMO I believe "they" (UK/USA/whomever Experts) are going to conclude it was a bomb and it probably was placed on the plane by somebody with sympathetic leanings to ISIS.

IMO if it is definitely proven this happened Putin will go for the gusto and clean house and I doubt there is going to be too much humanitarian concern for any civilians who might be in the vicinity. I think his attack(s) will be pointed and vicious and he will 'level the field'. Any Expats in his way will be mowed down along with any Egyptians who happened to be in the path of his troops.

I think the UK and USA are only going into Sharm for the purpose of gathering intelligence to apply back home.

[Horus]

The problem with Puke Tin is that he is not attacking ISIS, but rather groups that oppose Assad. It is probably a fringe in the Sianai that affiliates itself with that group who have carried out the bombing as a revenge for his actions against that particular group in Syria.

[LovelyLadyLux]

I think that Putin now knows that ISIS has the ability to travel with impunity around the area. This isn't going to help his price of oil and I think he'll strike back at anything and basically lay waste. Doubt he is going to be selective about his target. He has the rep of laying waste in Chechnya AND he has his own rep as being a tough buy to protect. I believe he'll go for it all.

[LovelyLadyLux]

American news today is indicating this disaster was caused by a BOMB. they're saying this based on "chatter" being picked up between US and UK security & investigative agencies.

[LovelyLadyLux]

The definitive answer now is that it definitely was a bomb

@#$%#@! ********!! #@$#$%@ What a senseless tragedy.

Seems Russia has now suspended ALL flights to anywhere in Egypt and Egypt is expected to make a statement in the next 12 to 16 hours.

Apparently the USA now has some NEW reported ISIS video they're assessing before presenting it to the public too.

[LovelyLadyLux]

The video is apparently the Aleppo branch of ISIS is congratulating it's Sinai affiliate for their downing of the plane - Metrojet.

[Horus]

N doubt about it LLL, British inteligence was ahead of the game

[Robbo70]

The british press are reporting a near miss with a Thomson plane back in August, where the pilot took evasive action from an oncoming missile. quite how you pull a barrel roll with a 737 I don't know

[Horus]

Thanks Robbo, I was just about to post this article copied from the Yahoo main page:

A passenger jet heading to the Egyptian resort of Sharm el Sheikh had to take evasive action after the pilot spotted a missile.
The Thomson flight from Stansted came within 1,000ft of the rocket back on 23 August and later landed safely.
The Department for Transport told Sky News it investigated the reported incident, but did not confirm specific details.
A spokesman said the department concluded it was not a targeted attack but "likely to be connected to routine exercises being conducted by the Egyptian military in the area at the time".

The Daily Mail quoted a source as saying: "The first officer was in charge at the time but the pilot was in the cockpit and saw the rocket coming towards the plane.
"He ordered that the flight turn to the left to avoid the rocket, which was about 1,000ft away."
A Thomson spokesman said: "Thomson Airways can confirm that an event was reported by the crew of flight TOM 476 on 23 August 2015.
"Upon landing into Sharm el-Sheikh, an initial assessment was conducted and the event was immediately reported to the UK Department for Transport (DfT) in line with established protocol.

"The DfT conducted a full investigation in conjunction with other UK government experts. After reviewing the details of the case, the investigation concluded that there was no cause for concern and it was safe to continue our flying programme to Sharm el Sheikh."
The revelation comes in the wake of the downing of a Russian jet in the Sinai peninsula, with evidence suggesting a bomb was planted on board.
The incident involving the Thomson plane is likely to add to fears surrounding the security of flights in the area.
Thousands of British holidaymakers remain stranded in Sharm, trying to board the small number of repatriation flights the Egyptian authorities are allowing to take off.

Islamic State affiliated terrorists active in the region have claimed responsibility for the disaster involving the Metrojet plane, which was carrying 224 people from Sharm to St Petersburg.
In the wake of the disaster it was noted by many experts that the militants were unlikely to possess the weapons necessary to shoot a plane out of the sky from more than 30,000ft.
Instead, intelligence has emerged suggesting a bomb was smuggled into the hold of the plane.

[Grandad]

1,000 feet away eh? Plenty of time to change course then......not!

[LovelyLadyLux]

I was listening to a talking head on the news here and his view - which I thought pretty insightful - was that terrorism is only limited by their own imagination. Means the good guy have to anticipate way more than they are now and if they're discounting a pilot who saw a missile coming at him........Not GOOD that this matter wasn't considered more seriously. Probably wouldn't have stopped ISIS sneaking a bomb on the plane but I do believe it is high time ALL THE POLITICIANS wised up to the fact that there are terrorist Muslim men and women infiltrating our lives on all levels, are out to get us and will do whatever it takes to "kill the infidel."

[Grandad]

As we have been talking security on this thread, the thought occurred to me LLL about security checks when you go to and from the US. Is there much in the way of border control at the ferry?
I have not used Eurotunnel for a few years now but at that time all they did was call random vehicles from the queue for a search but it was probably less than 10%. Of course there were some that they had a tip off but this was more often excess of duty free goods.
The tunnel is a frightening location for a terrorist attack. The immigrants cause enough problems as it is.

[Robbo70]

SKY living Grandad... Border Security Canada, usually around 7pm

[Ruby Slippers]

There's a funny thing, Grandad! I used the Eurotunnel today! We thought it was all going extremely smoothly when we were told to just present our passports at the control centre but then found that while we were being checked out inside - customs was ripping the coach apart outside!

[Horus]

That's the way to do it

[LovelyLadyLux]

@Grandad - there is absolutely NO security at the Ferry terminals.

It is like a ticking time bomb and I'm meaning that literally. There are no checks at all on any of our ferries

Somebody is SOON going to start a writing campaign and/or complain bitterly to her Sister-In-Law who works on the Ferries.......

But no - we're way to lax to have it and we also live in a dream world where we think the rest of the world "loves us."

Truly our gov't always preaches that everybody in the world loves us as we're the Peacekeepers!! (Bloody stupid idiots!)

[Grandad]

Must talk to my son and DiL about current policy, they both work there.

[Grandad]

I have just learned from my daughter that her neighbour's were in Sharm at the time of this attack. Their return was delayed for three days during which time they were returned to their hotel at no extra cost. They have now received notification that their luggage is back in the UK and arrangements will be made for its return/collection.
They said that the British Consulate and Easyjet were excellent in a very difficult situation. They were just a couple and conceded that families with children would have had a more stressful time.

I only post this because there were lots of stories of things going wrong but it would seem a lot went right. It was their opinion that many people moaned about their personal situation without any consideration for the cause and the considerable loss of life.

The Red Sea resorts do not rank highly as places to visit but I would go there in preference to The Canaries. With the events last evening in Paris, can we feel safe anywhere? I think not so the alternative is to either stay close to home or accept some risk which is at least lower than being killed on the roads.