When in Rome.....?

[Glyphdoctor]

Your properties may be largish but the average home size in the UK is really tiny!

http://shrinkthatfootprint.com/how-big-is-a-house

[Horus]

Its all relevant, we build our homes from more substantial materials, we use more fired brick and less timber and siding than the US or Canada, our homes are built to withstand hurricanes and not blow away as yours seem to do. Also as we do not have as much land so we appreciate what we do have and would like to keep it that way, hence our policy of not building on ‘Green Belt’ land and hence the need for smaller properties. Having said that not all properties are small and you only have to look at the properties in London and other major cities that are the homes of the wealthy, they would put other countries in the shade.

[Grandad]

I would not agree that our houses are really tiny Glyph. Houses are built to suit the average British family with the number of bedrooms being the key factor. People may start with a two bedroom property that can accommodate the parents and up to two same sex children. As the family grows, a move to a larger house is the normal practice. We tend not to WANT unnecessarily large houses (unless we are fairly wealthy) because mortgage costs, heating, and maintenance costs all come into the equation when choosing a new home.

By choice, I have lived in my present 3 bedroom home since it was built in 1969. We then had 3 small children. The original house area was approx 1000 Sq Ft but as the family grew I extended it by a further 150 Sq Ft to increase the living areas. I would regard my home as average size town house, and large enough for comfortable living. The term 'Town House' is important because houses built within an urban area tend to be built to a higher density than in rural areas.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Where I live almost ALL new homes are 3200 sq ft plus. Even older homes (like 25+ yrs old are about 2400 sq ft in size). The newer homes have 4 to 5 bedrooms, usually 2 or 3 living rooms and kitchen with eating area OR dining room. We're not so much building formal dining rooms anymore. Granted as the homes have gotten bigger in the city the lots sizes have stayed the same so the house tends to fill up more of the property. Recently in my city there was a new city bylaw passed that if your property is something like 9000sq ft in size and has a back access road you could build a carriage house (smaller house) at the back. This is taking away from the size of the backyards (as most are huge) but I believe has come about because of the high mortgage rates and pressure from home owners to get additional income to help them manage their payments.

[Horus]

The other thing you have to consider is that in the UK a large percentage of any house purchase is the land value so average sizes are determined by the cost of available building land which in a relatively small country are a lot higher. The other thing is comfort, as LLL found out it is difficult to keep her larger home heated to a satisfactory level, whereas in the UK most of our homes have a central hot water heating system that can maintain the whole home at a comfortable temperature even with our high energy costs. As Grandad points out most families can rear an average number of children and all their associated activities in a three bedroomed property without much problem, so hardly describable as being 'tiny'. Maybe we should be describing much larger properties as being wasteful as the majority of the rooms must have little or very little actual use, maybe we are just smarter in the UK.

[Grandad]

LLL, the homes you describe would be large by UK standards and in my area would cost approaching £1m and in London far more. Far beyond the affordability of Mr and Mrs Average.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Tell me about heating costs! (I know you all heard the whine this past winter). I've since purchased 4 infrared heaters for this coming winter which all have fans. I bought one, tried it out in the great room with the 11' ceiling and it definitely DID seem to move the air via setting up an air current which brought some of the high ceiling heat DOWN to where I was.

With the infrared heater (which design was a tower) it had 4 cylinders and an oscillating fan. Instructions were that I had to point it towards the window (which makes sense) and the oscillating fan started pushing the air in a circular motion about the room. Worked a treat, dropped my heating bill(s) as much as I can tell by about 20% so I bought 3 more.

My house in the area I live in isn't considered overly large. Some of the monsters are over 4000 sq ft! I'm sure "I" don't need that size a home which is why I've opted to rent a downstairs area to Grad students at the University. I also need somebody IN the house to bring in mail and make it look lived in when I'm out and wandering about. The daughter can come over and check it but it is easier to have somebody else living in the house who will bring in mail, pick up newspapers etc.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Most of the homes on the Island probably average in the half million dollar range up. This does contrast sharply with other areas of British Columbia. Land is at a premium on the island but we have low crime, fairly nice weather (glorious in the summer), open beaches with lots of parks built on the water. I will admit living in a 'destination' type area which does drive prices up.

Houses in the lower mainland - Vancouver BC - well - Vancouver BC has the most expensive housing in all of Canada. A 600 sq ft apartment converted to a condo there can easily run $600,000. How people are affording the mega size houses they're building these days is beyond me.

[Horus]

LLL, I am assuming you are talking Canadian Dollars CAD? if so then your average price of CAD 500.000 would equate to around £274.000 and would be considered very cheap by comparisson to a similar sized property in a select location as you describe, the UK equivalent would be nearer the 1 million pounds Sterling mark or nearly four times as much.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Yes - when I was talking about these house prices I was talking Canadian dollars. Am sure this is cheap compared to UK prices and probably explains why there are so many people from the UK moving to this area (There really are LOTS)

[Horus]

It is cheap if one compares like for like, but it is maybe a bit above average UK prices depending upon where you live. The UK of late has become very London centric and a very definite property divide exists between the South East and the rest of the country for no other reasons than past governments economic policies of investing more in that region regarding commerce and infra structure, the houses themselves are no different, but it does affect the property value.

If for example you travelled the short distance of under 300 miles into the county of Cornwall you would be in a most beautiful rural area, but because of lack of investment it is probably one of the poorest counties and houses outside of tourist areas would be considerably cheaper than those closer to London.

As to your influx of Brits that is not surprising as we probably feel a closer affinity to Canada than we would to the USA for example and you do live in a beautiful country which appeals to our ideals.

[Grandad]

Am sure this is cheap compared to UK prices and probably explains why there are so many people from the UK moving to this area (There really are LOTS)

Personally, and I think it goes for many Brits, Canada has always had an appeal to me. Nothing to do with house prices, just what comes over as an agreeable way of life. Australia and New Zealand never had that same appeal (to me) for a variety of reasons.

But don't get the impression that I am unhappy with life in the UK because I am not. It is probably the most beautiful, temperate climate, countries of the world. We have a long and fascinating heritage and I think it is SO many small things that visitors from abroad find fascinating and quaint. Not least our American visitors who adore our tiny villages, with tiny pubs and tiny churches and even tinnier houses. Joking Glyph

Edit:
Haven't we drifted again from the lead topic But that is always some of the fun and interest of forums. But to get back to RS's point, I am looking forward to Thursdays election results with the anticipation that all three major parties will get shaken up and will realise that they must get their act together and start listening to the people, the vast majority of British and Naturalised British people.

Edit Edit:
OOOPs Horus. We both seem to be posting at the same time

[Horus]

and Naturalised British people.

And is that not the point Grandad, where people have assimilated there are very few problems and they are accepted as such, it is the influx of minority groups that wish to change our own traditions and culture to suit themselves especially when it involves religion or special treatment. It was said earlier that we do not interact with these minorities in the same way as Americans or Canadians do, but I would say that is not the case at all, every corner shop in the UK is usually Indian or Pakistani owned, most fast food outlets are owned by people of other nationalities and we mix with them all on a daily basis. The ones that we do not get to mix with are the immigrants who form a closed community or who’s culture and customs prevent this, I am sure that most Americans do not interact with the Amish, Native American Indians, or Hasidic Jews on a cultural basis either.

[LovelyLadyLux]

On the island we've patterned life after lots of UK traditions. The capital, Victoria (need I say more ) is VERY British themed. The main hotel there, "The Empress" still offers (mostly to tourists) a very formal 'high tea' and some of the large old historic homes in Victoria that are opened to the public look like manor homes of the UK. The further one goes from Victoria the less the British influence but it is strong which does make for a very easy transition if you're coming from there.

In Canada there are definitely pockets of people. There is not lots of interaction with Sikh populations, Indian (Hindu), Asian on other than a daily workplace business level and I honestly can't say that our First Nations people are well integrated either but people do seem to assimilate.

It is extremely hard to describe but I can say that from my earliest memories "tolerance" was preached. There was a message implanted that "we're all different and that difference is to be cherished and valued and incorporated" and that is what makes Canada. Religion isn't over strong either and our churches struggle. Very hard to describe and methinks it will be very interesting to see if any one group does gain in strength and starts to push how it will be handled.

The USA used to be known (in Canada anyway) as the great "Melting Pot" but now - ???. Stats now show that Hispanic populations are the second largest minority followed by African American in the USA.

As a piece of trivia when I was working in the USA and renewing my work visa I asked the Immigration guys if they knew how many Canadians were working under Visas in the USA. The fellow said that the previous year there was something like 79,000 entries. He elaborated that they didn't count "Visas" of Canadians. They counted the number of times we entered or exited the USA as we had to exit and reenter at least ONCE per year. I was probably entering and exiting 3 or 4 times myself so the Stats were not too accurate but it did lead me to think the USA didn't have much to fear re: Canadians taking over their country!!!

[Horus]

You have used a phrase there LLL that most of us in the UK would find strange 'African Americans' and maybe supports what I am saying about integration. They are either new immigrants from Africa or they are born Americans with a black skin, they cannot be 'African Americans' they have no connection with Africa other than through their parents/grand parents etc. so why do people choose to describe themselves as such? It is as if their loyalty lies elsewhere other than to their country of birth, very few in my opinion would actually want to live in Africa instead of the US so why the desire to add the prefix 'African' I would not feel the need to describe myself as 'Roman' English or 'Viking' English or indeed any other combination of other nationalities that may have existed in my ancestry.

[Glyphdoctor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Am ... erminology

I have never met anyone who has a problem with the term and have never heard anyone suggest it makes them less American or less patriotic because of it. Everyone uses it.

Loyalty and origins are not mutually exclusive.

[Horus]

That's excellent, if you have never met anyone who had a problem with the term then it must be correct.

[LovelyLadyLux]

In Canada those whose skin is dark and whose background indicates they are negroid are referred to as "Black" people as distinct from white people. I did use the term as on using the term Black in the USA I would have been censured.

In the USA where I am until this evening it is considered PC to call all black people "African American." Does seem odd as am sure not all black people are from Africa and most have probably been in the USA so long they've lost all ties with Africa. That being said the term African American does seem to the present world to use and given the high use of African names now it does seem black people are trying to create an identity for themselves via Africa.

I see ME as Canadian which doesn't bring any issue of skin colour into the mix. Not too sure why black people cannot simply see themselves as American. It does create confusion over those black persons who do hail from other places than Africa. The term Asian American is also used frequently too.

[Horus]

LLL, you summed up very nicely my own views on the matter.

[LovelyLadyLux]

I'm kinda coming back to Ruby Slippers original thread referencing mass immigration. .
Suppose this was in reverse. Lets use Luxor as an example where there is a "Little Britain." Sure lots of Expats have left now but when Luxor was flying high and in it's glory nobody there was conforming much to the standard ways of living in Egypt. And most Expats were demanding a say in gov't and how things were being run etc.

How do you figure the Egyptians felt about this?

Most of the Expats definitely seem to want to live as they did in Britain (but to a higher standard) and most are not prepared to change for example their mode of dress in order to fit in.......just sitting and wondering ......... thoughts?