I've Changed my Mind

[Horus]

How easily an opinion can change, this week alone I have changed my stance on two things, first of all the Scottish vote and secondly our involvement in the Middle East.

I am now hoping that Scotland votes YES to leave the union, having watched what is a great proportion (at least half) of it’s population expressing their dislike of the English in particular, (although they will dress it up as disliking Westminster) then I think it’s time for each country to say goodbye to each other. Numerous big business from Food Chains to Telecomm companies, Banks, Oil Companies and now several foreign countries Banks are all warning them of the potential dire consequences of going it alone and the effect upon their economy. There is even an opinion that this disruption could trigger another fiscal crash similar to the last one, UK shares are losing value every day and our reputation is being damaged and despite all these warnings it just seems to fall on deaf ears and instead of it being taken into consideration and analysed it just seems to provoke the SNP and their nationalist supporters into an even more hardened attitude and utter denial. It just seems that a good percentage of Scottish voters are hell bent on going it alone regardless, so I say “enough is enough, go now” and lets be done with it. This sore will only fester over the coming years even if the vote is a NO, the damage has already been done and the old association between the two nations has in my opinion been irreparably damaged in the name of nationalism. Most people in England in particular know that they have been subsidising Scotland to the tune of several thousands of pounds per head for many years which results in Salmond and his SNP parliament being able to give Scottish voters free higher education, free prescription and many more perks that the English are paying for, I like many others know that England will be financially better off without Scotland in the union, we cannot be any worse off, so the sooner it happens then the sooner the dust will settle and we too can realise our dreams of becoming a better country on our own.

Next the Middle East, I used to hold the view that it is not our business and we should keep our noses out, but it has now become our business once again. This new rise in Islamic extremism will not go away, it threatens our very way of life and we should wake up to it. If we do not confront and fight this new wave of evil then our grandchildren will have to. I am tired of seeing Islamic speakers making platitudes about their being against this sort of thing and how it does not reflect their religion, well I am sorry but I think it does. If they are serious about this then they (the Arab nations) should put together a potable strike force and meet this threat head on, if they need Western fire power to do so then so be it, but we don’t put boots on the ground and we don’t supply weapons, we just use our military might to eradicate them as and when. For example if a United Arab force were confronting them and needed air support to take out their position then we give it, nothing more and nothing less, the United Arab force calls in a strike and we do it, no qualms and the onus for the strike and it’s aftermath is on the Arab force and not ourselves, if they choose to call an air strike on a populated area then that is their responsibility and we should have no bleeding hearts over the issue. Either way we should not let this sort of atrocity against our nationals go unpunished and whether we like it or not they (the Islamic world) is at war with the West and it is unrelenting and it does affect us and the sooner we wake up to this pervasive threat both abroad and particularly at home the better chance we have of dealing with it.

[Kiya]

I couldn't agree more fed up of it all too, just yesterday there was debate with some folks at the bus stop while I was waiting on the bus for Jessops, OMG! it continued on the bus with couple behind & in front of me going back as far with Mary Queen of Scots & James V1 & 1st.

It's all over even my FB page full of it!...............it's not just at this moment in time that there's been a dislike with a proportion of Scots having a dislike for English, it has not changed in hundreds of years & vice versa.

I even have my cousins born & bred in England & will have a stab at us here but, when it's turned around they do not like it.

Wake me up when it's all over.

As for the Middle East.....no comment.

[Horus]

I shall be on my little two day sojourn, so will only see the result when I get home, thank goodness

[LovelyLadyLux]

My vote would be for Scotland to stay put as it is now. Going it alone is, IMO going to be economic ruin. Seems the vote is going to be close so in all probability the issues will hang about for years and years to come.

As for the Middle East ..... I've been coming to the conclusion for some years now that all those in the Middle East really do hate us, they verbosely profess this all the while scamming us for all we're worth AND the blame is partly/mostly ours cause we listen, let them (take advantage) and we try to placate with generous gifts of money and goods and basically anything they demand.

It is OUR young men and women who are getting killed fighting for what? For a group of people who burn our flags, figuratively spit on us, our customs, our ways, our generosity etc. How come all those countries are not ponying up bodies to be trained to fight? How come their citizens are not required to be giving up the bad guys? How come they're not speaking out against these barbarians?

We need to be taking a much much stricter tone and stance and our policies need to become zero tolerance. One infraction and we WILL come to get you, your family, your neighbours, your communities. If you harbor an ISIS warrior then you are also equally culpable and not just YOU. Your wife, husband, mother, father, sons, daughters, aunts, uncles and community - you're ALL GUILTY. Sounds extreme but I do believe it would not take too long to dry up all ISIS hiding places and ultimately the world will turn back into a much more peaceful place.

Guess I'm getting crochety in my old age but being nice isn't getting too far.......

[Grandad]

I think the sad thing about the referendum is that the result is likely to be SO close that neither side can REALLY claim to have won. I think in these crucial votes there should be a requirement for at least, say, 60% of the vote to be for the 'winning' side. At least that would represent a majority.

As it is, not only will there follow animosity between the English and the Scots, particularly if economic affairs of either country takes a downturn; but also between the two Scottish camps not satisfied that their future was decided on a marginal vote. All will be revealed in 3 days but I hope the current 500,000 undecided's mostly go one way or the other to make the winning side, whichever it is, more convincing.

But, as I said in another post on another thread, I have also become past caring and if Scotland goes it alone, Good Riddance.......

On the middle east situation LLL, the countries in the region seem to be sitting on their hands although many have said they support the US intention to increase their air attacks to support those trying to suppress the IS. I agree with Horus that we should join that initiative and, with identified targets, bomb the sh*t out of them. They have just murdered a Brit and have another lined up for execution. Hopefully with ground inteligence, Alan Henning can be found and rescued....

[Horus]

The biggest problem the West always faces is moderation, take the last Iraqi conflict, 'Stormin Norman' totally obliterated the Iraqi army, there invincibility myth was destroyed in days. That is the sort of power we need to display against this upstart Islamic state with it's barbaric dogma and vile religious doctrine, hit them hard and make it hurt, when they hole up in a particular area flatten it totally with J-Dam bombs that will take out everything out within a mile radius and leave no survivors and when they re-group hit them hard again. We really do need to take the gloves off big time, war is war and there are no half measures, if you can take out ten thousand in one strike then it needs to be done regardless of where they are hiding and who is protecting them. We need to make it clear that anyone in the proximity of their forces are considered hostile and sad as it may be they need to remove themselves from that area or face certain death, so the choice is stark, you either fear ISAL and what they may do to you if you try to leave the area or you fear being killed in bombing and drone attacks against their fighters. Mass refugees may be a problem, but eventually that can be dealt with, but at least it will separate them from the general population making it easier to identify and kill them. Part of the current problem was not to persue Saddam's army right into Baghdad, our forces were held back because of the utter devastation that was being wreaked on his 'invincible' Arab army and it was though politically correct to spare them the utter and total destruction and humiliation that was about to befall them as an army. This was the root of the problem, they needed to be utterly humiliated, it is the only lesson these Middle Eastern countries understand, anything less and all they do is posture and turn humiliating defeat into a victory by teaching their children a fictitious account, one only has to look at some of the decisive and clear victories that the Israeli’s had in several wars with powerful Arab neighbours, destroying their airforces and tank Corp within days only to see those same countries having national holidays to celebrate their victory over Israel when the rest of the world knows that the reality was that they had their arses kicked big time.

[LovelyLadyLux]

I've actually been thinking what you said H for a long time. I've always thought that IF we all just talked together we'd ALL understand and then peace could be had by all - but more and more I'm certain that was just a naïve myth I carried from the Hippy days of peace/love however it doesn't truly apply.

From my time in the USA I've come to know many who fought in the Viet Nam war who have talked at length about their experiences and, over time I've come to hold as true that you can't have a nice war, an easy war, a PC war. War is awful. There is loss of life and there IS going to be collateral damage which does mean women and children and old and infirm will die. Your enemy WILL kill you and does not come with the same mindset or regard to life. You can't go in to CHANGE the enemy and make them democratic and like us.

IF you go to war you go to WIN. To PREVAIL. Nothing else.

I think we're at that with ISIS/ISIL/IS. If we conduct a boots on the ground war where soldiers are to go into villages and play Social Worker, Nurse, Counselor and all the nicey nice roles the PC police types seem to want then the war will drag forever, affect many more lives and stagnate into a phenomenal number of deaths. We will never win, never prevail, nobody will ever get it together to assume control of their own lives and the cost to us in multi terms will be phenomenal.

IMO we issue a strong clear message. You've got 2 weeks to turn 'em in, turn 'em over or WE are coming to get YOU. And then we essentially do this. No apology, no red lines, no second chances and then we bomb extensively anywhere they appear. Not just ISIS - the entire area you're found in. If it takes this to instill fear and if that is the only way we get a response then we do it.

I personally believe ISIS has established itself IN all countries of the world in cells that are waiting to activate. I think it is really only a matter of time until there is a beheading on foreign soil (USA/UK/EU etc) and unless we want to see and experience this we need to ACT NOW.

I almost feel it as a loss that we all can't live together in a peaceful honorable respectful way. Always thought and hoped we could but now I'm pretty certain we can't. There ARE bad guys out there who are not going to play nice in the sand box. They are the bullies and being nice to them just isn't going to fix the problem. Sad but I do believe we have to act and act soon to preserve what we have now cause we're going to lose it if we don't act to protect ourselves and our way of life.

[Horus]

Here Here!