Ghadaffi is Caught

Post by **LovelyLadyLux** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:43 am

Just home and watching the TV News and Moammar Ghadaffi was captured today and killed/executed (that part is up for arguement).

Am hoping this will truly be a 'new spring' for Libya. 42 yrs of life under a dictator is a lifetime, tragic. I hope the Libyan people can now find peace.

Post by **BillH** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 7:21 pm

I am very sceptical of the Libya "uprising".
Let the people decide, they are the ones that really matter in all of this.

Time will tell LLL if this overthrow was indeed a good or bad thing.

Post by **Horus** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:34 pm

I tend to be in agreement here with Bill, I am very sceptical that any of these Arab countries ever really have or will have what we would call democracy. It seems that they either need a strong leader who usually turns into a dictator at some point, or they break up into some civil strife and tribalism.

Post by **LovelyLadyLux** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:35 pm

Libya as we identify Libya could and might disappear. Great the 'people' have overthrown Ghadhafi BUT and it is a big BUT - what happens now. I could see Libya going the way of Russia and breaking up into smaller tribally held 'countries' and/or the strife continuing. Different name but same situation.

I do not think that any of the Middle East Countries or even Asian countries - those who are fundamentally different from us will adopt our definition and creation of 'democracy.'

Post by **Winged Isis** » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:44 pm

Horus wrote:I tend to be in agreement here with Bill, I am very sceptical that any of these Arab countries ever really have or will have what we would call democracy. It seems that they either need a strong leader who usually turns into a dictator at some point, or they break up into some civil strife and tribalism.

And yet look what the ancient Greek cities, who were constantly warring, managed to do: they eventually united and "gave birth" to democracy! So while I admit it will be a long and very rocky road, and that their version of democracy will most likely not be the same as ours, it could happen. Some of the biggest democracies are not the same either e.g. UK?Australia vs USA systems.

I remain optimistic.

Post by **Horus** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:09 pm

I agree WI, but you only confirm what I was trying to say, the Greek unity was only forged under the dictatorship of Phillip of Macedonia and later his son Alexander, neither of whom allowed any form of democracy, but what they did do was to unite all the disparate groups within the area we now call Greece. It was that dictatorship and control that united the people who eventually after a long period of time came to see themselves as being Greek and not just city states, I fear that Libya is too young to have melded the population into a harmonious group, rather it is still a tribal based society that could easily divide again along those lines.

We only need to look at what happened to Yugoslavia which was a geographical area only held together under the dictatorship of General Tito, once he died the whole area erupted into the Balkan conflict dividing along ethnic (tribal) lines with Slovenes, Serbs and Croats fighting it out for control. It is this scenario that I fear will happen to many of these newly emerged Arab Spring countries, in the euphoria of revolution they may well come to the conclusion that it was “better the devil you know”. I am not alone in wishing them all the luck in the world for their collective future, but I am also old enough to have seen it all before.

Post by **BillH** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:32 pm

The way I see it is this..
The WHOLE country was bombed into submission and now Libyans have been liberated from the prosperity of their former ruler, they are free to endure the ethnic cleansing, genocide, and human rights violations without fear of Gaddafi ever coming back to build them hospitals, schools, or even roads.

Having seen the video of his death, somewhat makes me realise that those who killed him are no better than he was alleged to be..

Like Horus, I have been in this game a long time, and history seems to repeat it's self more quickly these days..

So, Who's next on the list ? Iran or Pakistan ?

Post by **LovelyLadyLux** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 10:43 pm

From what I've seen on the TV News here re: Ghadafi when he was caught (and I've seen mega mega repeats of him alive wiping blood off his face) there was shouting to the effect of "keep him alive." Then he was 'caught in crossfire' and unfortunately hit in the head. (Yeah right coincidence coincidence).

Part of me can understand the 'hate' one would feel towards the figurehead especially if I'd lost loved ones under his Regime - however - doesn't really seem the BEST way to proceed.

That being said another part of me thinks - well it is over and done with. Can you imagine the hype and storms of protest/contest/media frenzies for years to come if he was brought to trial? Kinda like Osama Bin Laden. I'm not sure the 'how' of his demise was kosher but, at least, he is now gone and is (hopefully) on his way to being forgotten by the world.

I think the Libyan uprising followed the other Arab uprisings and was spontaneous. I don't think there is any kind of gov't or overall organization in place. I'm afeard this will lead into a fairly quick destabilization of the entire country..........BUT BUT BUT - WAIT! Libya has OIL sooooooo am pretty sure there is going to be LOTS of interest in maintaining stabilization, at least, around and about the OIL FIELDS.

Post by **Horus** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:02 pm

I'm with you on that LLL

I don’t believe that the rest of Europe including UK had any part in instigating the actual uprising, rather that they chose a particular side and backed it. We should however be honest about this, we do have a vested interest in Libyan oil, it will secure Europe’s supplies and release us to some degree from having to rely of Russia for our energy. I see nothing wrong with saying this, I shall not be wringing my hands over rights and wrongs, it happened and we should take the best advantage of it while we can before someone else does, no use standing on the side lines with high morals while the rest of the pack eat their fill is it?

However I do stand by my original thoughts that this is unlikely to result in long term stability for Libya. I also have mixed views on his death, on the one hand I think, "well that puts an end to him and his family" and the reason for resurgence will have gone away, bury him somewhere in the desert and obliterate his memory and move on.

Then I see people who profess to be religious and calling out that "god is great" acting in a way that is totally against the teachings of their religion and plainly murdering a man in cold blood, but then again we have seen this duplicity in the behaviour of these religious zealots all over the world haven't we?

Post by **LovelyLadyLux** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:34 pm

I think tribal ties are going to be too strong for this area to settle easily. I have no idea 'who' was in charge or giving orders re: the uprising. I've not seen 1 name or face emerge as a leader. Even without an uprising and conflict this would make it difficult to maintain stability. I'm hoping clear direction without bloodshed will lead the way to a new Libya but am not sure.

Far as I'm concerned 'we' do want Libyan oil and it seems silly that we don't just state it as fact. We're suddenly polite? We need it and want it so am sure that there are going to be lots of active plans about how to get it.

Post by **LovelyLadyLux** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:26 pm

Just heard a snip on TV - not sure I did get it all - but seems that Ghadaffi's family is going to sue NATO over Moammars death?????

Post by **Horus** » Sun Nov 06, 2011 6:43 pm

Knowing how stupidly PC we are in the West and our blind adherance to the 'Human Rights' act,

we will probably finish up paying them lots of money.