The age of responsibility and understanding

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Ruby Slippers
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The age of responsibility and understanding

Post by Ruby Slippers »

Did anyone watch the programme on the Jamie Bulger killing last evening? I had to watch it on catch-up because I didn't think it was going to be any different to past offerings, but I was informed this morning that the slant of the programme was angled more to the understanding of the boys involved. I'm now asking for the opinions of other adults so what do you all think? Do children know the difference between right and wrong at the age of 10? Should the age of responsibility be higher than 10? Hoping for some in-depth discussion from you, folks! :up


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Re: The age of responsibility and understanding

Post by Mad Dilys »

Hi Ruby, what channel was it on? I can get it on Catch-up perhaps? ;)
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Re: The age of responsibility and understanding

Post by Ruby Slippers »

It was on Channel 4 at 9pm.
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Re: The age of responsibility and understanding

Post by Mad Dilys »

Thanks I'll try to get it tomorrow, if not before.

I think, at the moment that most usually feelings of responsibility are induced by nurture not nature. Most people who aren't taught some idea of responsibility for their actions before they go to school never really become what I would call a responsible adult. I mean they always make excuses for their actions, it's never their fault.

When I was young it was likely to be kids who were largely ignored by their parents. However, now I see more, certainly in the more affluent south who are over sheltered and indulged.

I look forward to watching the programme and see if it changes my mind.
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Re: The age of responsibility and understanding

Post by Ruby Slippers »

The programme seemed to be saying that because children know the difference between right and wrong at that age, they know what they're doing if they kill. I can't agree with them.
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Re: The age of responsibility and understanding

Post by Mad Dilys »

Well I have to agree with you Ruby - young people usually learn by experience.

They burn their fingers, suddenly pain comes into their world. The media is a blame for so many things, but the worst I think is that "bang you're dead" and we can do this again later is the worst.

Whether it's Tom and Jerry or Cowboys and Indians death is not a game.

Destruction means whatever it is, it is gone for ever - you may build something similar, but the original is gone.

When I was young when the war had just ended, I remember that when people died the coffin was put into the Best Room and people came to pay their respects. Watching small children waited for their relative to wake up and get out of the box - but after several hours they realised there would be no more movement, the lid would be put on the coffin and the family would follow the hearse to the cemetery, passing pedestrians who stopped and lowered their head the men always taking off their hat in tribute. At the cemetery they watched the interment. Afterward they would visit the grave and gradually the serious formality made it's mark and they learned that all living things live and die, nothing is for ever............... but a new individual will also live and die and so on.

In this day and age we tend to hide death, people "pass over" or are "Lost" as if it wasn't final. Children are told that the dead person is now a star or an Angel.

I give children more credit for believing in neither - to them a star is a tiny light they can see on a clear night. A light? Really?
An Angel? What do Angels do? Where are they? Why do they need wings, haven't they got a body transporter like Star Trek? Etc etc etc.

This is an alarmist society, children are over protected and not shown what responsibility in all its many varieties really is, as they daily see that what is expected from them is not carried out by the adult population.
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Re: The age of responsibility and understanding

Post by Ruby Slippers »

Well, well well! Channel 4 have removed the programme from its 'CatchUp' side.
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Re: The age of responsibility and understanding

Post by Mad Dilys »

I didn't get the chance to see it, but think it would have caused the same reaction with me as it did with you.
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Re: The age of responsibility and understanding

Post by Grandad »

Ruby Slippers wrote:Well, well well! Channel 4 have removed the programme from its 'CatchUp' side.
No doubt the events of the last couple of days with John Venebles being imprisoned for 40 months has had a bearing on Channel 4's decision.
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Re: The age of responsibility and understanding

Post by Ruby Slippers »

Whoever 'they' were, they were mistaken. It's still there!
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Re: The age of responsibility and understanding

Post by Grandad »

Ruby Slippers wrote:Whoever 'they' were, they were mistaken. It's still there!
You've lost me RS. Where did the 'they' come from? If it was directed at me in any way, I hadn't even bothered to check if it was still there on back up, not really interested.
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Re: The age of responsibility and understanding

Post by Ruby Slippers »

Grandad, Of course I didn't mean you!!! The 'they' who I meant were the posters who said it had been taken off! I apologise for not being clear in my comment just who I was talking about! :ni:
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Re: The age of responsibility and understanding

Post by Grandad »

Sorry RS for my misunderstanding. Actually I would have understood if they (Channel4) had taken it off. There was another program this evening about Jamie's mother. I didn't watch but all this happened so long ago and sometimes I think it best to leave these events in the past.
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Re: The age of responsibility and understanding

Post by Grandad »

Returning to your original question RS, I do think that young children can be capable of some nasty behaviour irrespective of their background or upbringing. And I think it is a very fine line between being a nasty little verbal or physical bully, with cruel words and an occasional punch, and going a little further and causing actual physical harm. In so doing the child would have a sense of power over the other child.

I am reminded of how cruel children can be in this example. My own children were brought up in a stable loving home which was also the case for neighbours with children of similar ages. When our daughter was 8 she suffered a stroke which put her in hospital for about 2 weeks. When she came home her walking was still affected and she walked with a limp until she eventually fully recovered.

Her local and similarly aged 'friends' knew of her problems but goaded her and called her a cripple. This hurt me at the time after I had gone to the hospital every evening on my way home from work anxious about her condition. How could children be so cruel, I thought.

So then I think about Jon Venables and Robert Thompson. They both came from very similar backgrounds. Broken homes where both fathers had deserted their families, living in a deprived area of Liverpool, mothers who became less than ideal examples to their children. Absconders from school, shoplifters and generally two not very nice little boys.

Their situations were so different from those of my own children and their friends but, I believe at their ages there is little proper understanding of right or wrong, good or bad. James was a very small child over whom Jon and Robert had total control. The difference between them and my children is that from their (Jon and Roberts) backgrounds with a lack of parental control they did not understand where to draw the line and probably got pleasure from their actions because that was the sort of 'look after yourself' environment that they lived in.

So to answer your question, I think a lot depends on a childs background and parental guidance but I do not think that at 10 years of age a child REALLY understands the difference between right and wrong, good and evil and can easily be swayed the wrong way.
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Re: The age of responsibility and understanding

Post by Grandad »

I don't think we can underestimate how young childrens minds work.
Thre of our grandchildren came to visit this afternoon. One qualified as a hairdresser but didn't enjoy the work and now works at a pre school nursery and loves it.

These are all under fives and she told us of one boy who complained to his mother that he had been hit by one of the carers (I don't know their proper title). The mother raised the issue and the police became involved. After some investigation the child finally owned up that he did it as a joke.

What does that say about that young mind?
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Re: The age of responsibility and understanding

Post by Mad Dilys »

I saw an advertisement for a new TV show called What would your child do?

In view of the above discussion I thought I'd take a look. It was very revealing about the parents as well as the 5 yr old children, and certainly showed that they knew what was wrong in the situation they were in, but some chose to ignore it in order to win a prize.

"Each show will see children filmed in a real world setting – they’ll think it’s just another day at school, unaware they'll go through a number of tasks that will explore everything from curiosity to lateral thinking, risk taking to rule breaking.

As the situations unfold, Jason the host will observe alongside the parents as they try to predict what their child will do in each situation, providing a fascinating and often hilariously telling insight into the minds of children - he’ll also have a few surprises up his sleeve that will see him join the children in their world.

At the end of the show the parents who have shown they know their child the best and correctly predicted their behaviour will play for a family prize alongside their child."

It was terribly revealing especially at the end when the child is offered a choice of prizes one of which is obviously for an adult and one for a child. The parents are watching and when the child is finally offered a family hoiday in Barbados or a car which would seem to be an open top Mercedes, and she chose the car, the parents were positively drooling.

The dear little girl had first chosen a Fender guitar - which turned out to be child sized. Then she was shown a picture of the car and told she would be allowed to drive it, which might have given her greedy parents a clue ..............of course it was also wuitable for a 5 yr old in the event!
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