Fitness to drive - Eyesight

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Grandad
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Fitness to drive - Eyesight

Post by Grandad »

I watch Breakfast TV each morning and most days they raise some topical issue for discussion.

Today it was about the quality of ones eyesight and fitness to drive motor vehicles. Recently a 28 year old young woman was knocked down and killed while on her way to choose a wedding dress. The vehicle driver was a 78 year old man who was blind in one eye and had deteriorating sight in the other. He died before he could face charges in court.

The minimum requirement for fitness to drive in the UK is the ability to read a vehicle number plate at 20 metres (which is a VA of 6/12). This is tested during the driving test but NEVER again, so any deterioration is not detected. An Optometrist testing eyes for spectacles may measure below the legal limit to drive and tell the person of this but they have no authority to report this to the DVLA. It is left up to the individual to iether decide to stop driving or to tell the DVLA, which he/she is bound to do. Failure to report this, and if an accident occurs, then the individual can be held responsible with criminal charges to follow.

The DVLA work on a ;tick box' questionnaire every 10 years up to the age of 70 and then every 3 years. But this relies on the honesty of the individual and no testing is called for unless some change is notified to DVLA.

My last questionnaire was in October 2016 after I declared that I had injections in my right eye. They arranged a test for VA and Visual field which I passed and my licence was renewed. I have told the story of my problems early this year with my left eye and as both th hospital and an Optometrist advised me that it was below the limit, I voluntarily gave up driving. As I said to my wife, 'I would never forgive myself IF I had an accident causing injury or death'. It has made life more difficult and limited but I can rest in the knowledge that I shall never put others at risk on the road.

The issue now is, what should be done. My eyes are probably exactly the same as the man who killed the girl. I believe that Optometrists SHOULD be required tp notify DVLA of any patient holding a driving licence who falls below the legal limit to drive, and also that it should be a requirement to have an eye test every 3 years whether or not you normally wear glasses. I should add that PSV and HGV drivers have a more stringent test than that for motor car drivers.

OK, I'll now put my soapbox away ;)


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Re: Fitness to drive - Eyesight

Post by Horus »

I agree with everything you said Grandad and as you point out it is a legal requirement. I have never really been sure that the ability to read a number plate at 20 metres is a practical way of determining how good someone’s driving eyesight is as its pretty arbitrary. Making out small numbers at that sort of distance does not really mean a driver cannot see everything else around them perfectly well, now if they could not see the actual plate then that would be different, but I struggle to think of anything of that size at that distance that would be dangerous if a driver could not see it clearly. I don’t mean unable to distinguish black from yellow, but to say for certain if a number 8 was in fact a letter B seems a bit daft to me.
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Re: Fitness to drive - Eyesight

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I usually don't want Gov't arbitrarily reporting anything about anybody but in this case it seems prudent to do this because I have a thought that IF left up to the individual lots of people are probably not reporting and lots are not voluntarily giving up their licences.

I shudder to remember my own mother driving. Apparently at one time when she was in her 60ies she backed the car up, bumped/banged/hit another car, apparently didn't realize she did this and pulled away. Not that I was even in the country at the time but she was quite upset when the RCMP arrived and charged her with a hit and run. She had no other record and nothing much came of it (that I'm aware of) but she just stopped driving for probably 15 yrs until my father became ill. She then had to resume as while she never drove she still retained a licence.

They lived miles into the country and it was scary visualizing her navigating the roads and was REAL scary thinking about her driving around the city. She should never have been driving.

When she turned 80 she passed her test but it was simply her going in to the DMV, having her photo taken and they conducted a gross visual test.

Shudder to think of all the people out here who are driving around and probably shouldn't be - BUT - that being said almost everybody here drives. The distances are so great and one of the major issues here is the distances seniors have to walk to get to bus stops. The next issue is that even if you get on a bus and get to wherever you're going you might have to wait hours until you're picked up and brought back home. This can cause other medical issues to arise in the individual. The cost of a taxi here is prohibitive again because of the distances between places. Nothing is close to anything else.

All the above being said I do believe they are quite lenient here with older people being allowed to keep their ability to drive. You're tested at 80 and then again at 85 (and then 90? not sure) but the testing seems relatively simplistic. I don't know if Doctors here have any obligations to report poor eyesight officially but there probably should be.

I wish there were more options available to all those who don't drive and not having the ability to get out and about on a whim or the spur of the moment can be quite life altering.
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Re: Fitness to drive - Eyesight

Post by Grandad »

I believe that sight like all of the senses is only as good as the person experiences that sense. So, what we see, hear, smell, taste, and touch; we believe our sense to be normal when it may well be far from normal.
I do agree H about the questionable value of the number plate test. I certainly don't remember the examiner measuring the distance of the plate he asked me to read, neither for my motor car test, nor my motor cycle test. So as you say, it is subjective.

I am sure that there are many drivers on the road who cannot meet the minimum requirements. When I did the independent test last year for the DVLA, it included a visual field test with BOTH eyes to measure the field under normal driving conditions. I don't remember VF being mentioned in DVLA requirements before.

The problem is that we all value our cars for the independence that they give us and even when you suspect that your vision is below par, you keep quiet and keep driving. I used to see some very suspect drivers in Sainsburys car park on a Thursday morning. That's why I think there should be more testing, BUT I also think that the 20/40 minimum requirement should be reviewed and possibly reduced to perhaps 20/50. I think that small margin would allow many borderline drivers to keep their licence.

Obvious;y I have a personal interest in all this. My next eye appointment is on 5 December at which I shall have a detailed discussion with my consultant. I shall probably ask for the left cataract to be operated on and, a bit of a long shot, if my sight in that eye does come back within minimum requirement, I shall notify DVLA and have a retest. I have not yet given up my licence nor have I given up on ever driving again. No problem to buy an inexpensive car if that situation arose, I have a son in the business.......
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Re: Fitness to drive - Eyesight

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I didn't include this in my last post (floor layers arrived) but I wanted to say that I personally intend to keep my licence for as long as possible even though I may opt not to drive.

Even now I chose not to drive if the weather isn't optimal. I rarely go out at night. I can see and could but I'd rather organize my day to travel when it is easiest to see and go. I can but do not like driving in snow and/or if there is a chance of ice either.

I'd die if I ever hit somebody or hurt someone and I'd equally die if I had to go through piles and piles of paperwork - all the documentation associated with an accident. Here we have to deal with young men all driving huge high 4 wheel drive trucks that emulate "monster trucks" and scream around in high gear big time to say nothing of black ice, animals running out, dark & not well lit roads, steep hills & ditches and hair pin curves and long stretches of isolated driving. There are enough difficulties driving during the daylight hours to contend with I don't have to be out there at night.

I think it a good idea to actually keep your drivers licence for as long as possible so that it gives you choices and options. If your eyesight improves it would still be nice to be able to do short safe jaunts in daylight hours even if it is just to the grocery store.
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Re: Fitness to drive - Eyesight

Post by Ruby Slippers »

Over the years I have seen lots of people driving that I consider unsafe. The husband of a friend suffered with angina badly, and sometimes had to sit in a carpark for an hour or so before he could drive back, and he wasn't alone. My question would be: how the hell do they get insurance? DH defied me to ever accept a lift from said friend's husband, because the chances of an accident were quite high, and he couldn't see that the man's insurance would have paid up.
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Re: Fitness to drive - Eyesight

Post by Grandad »

Ruby Slippers wrote:Over the years I have seen lots of people driving that I consider unsafe. The husband of a friend suffered with angina badly, and sometimes had to sit in a carpark for an hour or so before he could drive back, and he wasn't alone. My question would be: how the hell do they get insurance? DH defied me to ever accept a lift from said friend's husband, because the chances of an accident were quite high, and he couldn't see that the man's insurance would have paid up.
I understand that the reason that ophthalmologists are not allowed to report poor eyesight is that it breaks privacy rules.
I expect the same applies to doctors who are aware of serious heart problems like the one you quote RS.

What utter rubbish when such inaction could put peoples lives at risk. I think all medics should have a responsibility to report any condition that could put others at risk.
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Re: Fitness to drive - Eyesight

Post by Horus »

But folks they are already legally obliged to report such problems to the DVLA ;)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... -DVLA.html
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Re: Fitness to drive - Eyesight

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I know that doctors here MUST report if you have epilepsy or seizure disorders. I'm not sure about eyesight but I think (I THINK not sure) doctors here have the ability to actually take your drivers licence away from you if they come to know you have something that could jeopardize your driving.

Where I live now it is about a 5 minute walk away from a pharmacy, bakery, small grocery store, pub, 2 restaurants (Chinese - awful, Greek - not bad) and other assorted small shops plus coffee shop. I rarely ever walk there now but in years to come if I couldn't drive I'd be doing the walk to grab essentials. I'd have to walk there anyway just to catch the bus to another grocery store so I'd probably just shop there. It isn't terrifically close to be carrying groceries but with one of those pull along things it wouldn't be too terribly onerous. The City plan, now that they cut down ALL the trees :urm: is to put in another subdivision but in so doing they'll also add sidewalks and pave a street (right now it is park type gravel paths) so whilst I didn't like it that they cut down the trees IF I was to opt for a scooter in years to come it would be an easier jaunt for me.

I don't think I'd have a problem buying staples online from a grocery store if I couldn't get there. A box of soap is a box of soap but it would really get to me not to be able to pick out my own head of lettuce, apples or whatever in terms of fresh fruit and/or meat. I often buy fruit on the whim of what looks freshest, what is on sale and what I'm feeling like eating. I actually tend to swing by stores and buy fresh fruit 2 or 3 times a week. I usually combine this with having a coffee and reading but it whiles away the time and is my day out.

My gf who was also a coworker for years has a mom who lives local and drives around everywhere on her scooter. I often see her at the grocery store I shop in cause she also frequents the same coffee shop. Her issue is that she is a very heavy person and seems to carry her weight on her legs and bum meaning walking is actually difficult. She gets up and down the aisles easily and her only problem seems to be getting something down off a top shelf but other shoppers will readily help. Her route from home to store is paved with sidewalks so her getting back and forth is easy and she also isn't on any of the major streets.
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Grandad
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Re: Fitness to drive - Eyesight

Post by Grandad »

Horus wrote:But folks they are already legally obliged to report such problems to the DVLA ;)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... -DVLA.html
Yes that seems to be the case H with a code of practice issued by the GMC. The researchers on Breakfast TV had not done their job. :(
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Re: Fitness to drive - Eyesight

Post by Horus »

To be fair Grandad how often are these TV programs accurate, most go for sensationalism over fact.
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