Attack on Cairo hotel?

[Horus]

Reports are comming in of gunmen (plural) opening fire on a Cairo hotel near the Pyramids
Well that should just about stuff tourism up for another season then

[Grandad]

The Movenpick is just down the road from the pyramids, any details which hotel? It is becoming a pattern now of attacking places where people, particularly foreigners, will be gathered. As you say, another nail in the coffin of travel to Egypt......but just wait and see how this will be talked down by those who still think Egypt and Luxor in particular is heaven on earth.........

We went in March for 10 days and had a most enjoyable time......but that will be our last visit.....plenty of good memories though

[Horus]

Nothing yet Grandad, but it was on the early Sky news and it was just breaking so not a lot of detail with it, but from what I can gather it was the Amarante Pyramids Hotel and involved (or so they say) disgruntled worker/workers who were refused entry to the hotel. This may be putting a different slant on it to calm tourist fears of targeted attacks starting to occur, but in any event to have people firing weapons near to a tourist type destination is not going to instill a feeling of safety when visiting the area if that type of thing can happen.

[LovelyLadyLux]

I haven't heard anything at all about this HOWEVER the news here today has been flooded with reports of a man with an automatic rifle pushing/shooting his way into LAX Airport and people running out onto the tarmac etc.

I'm actually surprised that a tourist hasn't been popped off in Egypt yet. Possibly some have and it has been kept totally hushed up but I feel Egypt is a ticking time bomb and sooner or later one of the MB types is going to decide to make a big splash via knocking off a bunch of tourists or Expats.

I find it interesting to watch the demise and all the efforts of those with Business interests to try and keep tourism going via the creation of Committees etc. Can't deny I haven't been highly critical of this but the creation of the Committee strikes me, even from this far away as such an obvious ploy to grab what they can for themselves no matter who or what ends up getting used and abused in the process.

[Horus]

I think that there is an obvious divide in what people are saying, some business people are telling it as it is (Keefy for example) while others are only doing it to protect or promote their own interests and will say and do anything to achieve that end. The irony though is that the vast majority of people who read this forum can tell who is fooling who and are just as up to speed with how things are in Egypt and Luxor as people living there. We live in a global media society and information is readily available and contrary to popular belief we humble 'tourists' are no fools and can make up our own minds as to where is safe and if we wish to go there, we do not need some long term tourists with an agenda trying to persuade us to do so. On the subject of Committees it does beg the question as to why any government worth its salt would need the advice of some of these people? Are they saying they are so inadequate that they need the input of outsiders? Quite frankly if after all these years of mass tourism they cannot see the reasons for the decline and worse still they cannot see what they need to do to sort it out, then there is no hope of it ever happening.

Egypt still has a long way to go before it is considered a safe destination by most people, we have yet to experience the revenge attacks which will surely come as a response to the MB being suppressed in an attempt to restore order and stability. That suppression cannot be half hearted, it has to be all or nothing, leaving behind any faction that can still operate as a cohesive unit will result in organised resistance and to stop all of the millions who support the MB from reacting in some way will be an impossible task. So you either have to return to the Mubarak style of repression and a very strong police force that acts unilaterally to maintain law and order with all the abuse and corruption that brings with it, or you try and accommodate the MB and its supporters in a new more liberal Egypt with the resultant demonstrations against the deposing of Morsi, the two views are not reconcilable, therefore we will see a long period of unrest in Egypt with escalating demonstrations and a further decline in tourism as more incidents affecting tourists start to increase.

[DJKeefy]

Even though business is really bad I refuse to sweep the truth under the carpet and tell people false information about Egypt, even though it would be in my benefit paint Egypt as 100% safe.

A certain known women posted a photo of Abu haggag aquare the other day saying though there was protests in other parts of Egypt, look how quiet and safe Luxor is....

Just of TV street where the new microbus station is (10-15mins walk) there was hundreds of pro morsi protesters matching down the street, Pro army supporters were throwing stones and shouting at them, it did not look good to me, so it would not look great at all to an average tourist if they saw it.

I was told by this same person who posts nice photos and videos of Luxor to balance it by showing any violence that goes on in Luxor Really!!!! anyone can go out and take a nice looking photo, what are the chances of getting a photo of someone on a motorbike stealing a bag from a tourist (even though it goes on often these days) who whould want to risk the chance of taking a photo of a protest when it most likely cause a problem, also in the news it's been reported on a few occasions of foreigners been killed for doing such a thing.

[Horus]

I agree Keefy, the last thing you want to be doing is drawing attention to yourself by taking pictures of protesters or rioters, what a stupid remark for someone to make, but it does emphasise that these people actually know very little about how to behave in a foreign country if they do not realise the implications of what they were telling you to do, they are hardly the right people to go about advising tourists.

[LovelyLadyLux]

I know I was pretty verbal on L4U re: Committee but I saw it as the biggest JOKE going! Honestly - why would the Egyptian government want advice or anything from a bunch of Expats none of whom have any professional credentials/education etc in the areas they are touting themselves as experts in? HAS to be nothing other than self-serving.

I could go on and on about how ridiculous I think the formation of this type of Committee is - but will refrain from it on E4U.

I quite appreciate Keefy and his open and honest portrayal of the situation in Luxor.

[Grandad]

I don't know if you folks look in at L4U, but this thread is running just now
http://www.luxor4u.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=33408

Just illustrates that guns are in the community and it would not take much for some hot head to shoot at people and not in the air. As Stan says, incidents like that do nothing to encourage tourism, especially as all guests at Gezira Gardens checked out next morning.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Keefy just posted on L4U a new thread with the Minutes of the latest Committee meeting. Part of the minutes said:

Also, if anyone we know has recently been in Luxor could we ask them to write a ‘travel review’ for the committee website about their visit.
The object of this is to try and send out the truth about the situation here in Luxor and in Egypt so that the embargo on travel may be lifted.

Note I underlined "send out the truth" as it still seems these Committee people are trying to lure tourists via pushing the line that Luxor is safe. Can't even fathom how anybody in good clear conscience could say that right now all is ok and it is safe to travel there by way of trying to lure tourists (possibly quite naïve to anything going on). AND the entire point of bringing tourists is to pad their own pockets.

IMO just another sad commentary on self serving people driven by greed.

[Horus]

Although we try not to have threads crossing over from one forum to another I think that most people who read this board also read the others especially the blue side and have seen for themselves the things that have been posted by and the comments made about this so called committee. I agree with the general consensus that it is nothing more than a self serving tool that will be manipulated by some and I was particularly concerned to see that message posted warning people not to make disparaging remarks about it as that would be seen as an attack on the new governor! If that is actually true, or if it is just a tactic by them to deflect criticism I don't know, what I do know is that it is intended as a threat, keep your mouths shut or suffer the consequences, ergo you may get deported.

It smacks of abuse on two fronts, firstly if it was said by the new governor then he is not fit to hold office as he is acting in a dictatorial manner, a case of do as I say or else. Neither is his governor-ship open, if he cannot be challenged or his actions questioned then we have a mini dictator and not a representative of the people of Luxor and that is not what the people had a revolution for.

Now do I believe he actually said that? my answer would be a resounding NO! More likely it is case of a single person or smaller group on that committee that want to attach more importance to themselves and their self promotions and are really miffed and annoyed at the bad press they are getting for themselves so they play the "be careful what you say or you could get into trouble" card very similar to playing the 'race' card it is a catch all and a method of silencing your critics. To further hammer home your threat you also include a third party, in this case the governor by intimating that if you criticise a committee member you are by association criticising the Governor, it is a commonly used device to try and deflect criticism from yourself.

The really scary aspect of this would be that if for whatever reasons these people do have the governors ear, then it would be very easy for them to whisper poison in it about the undesirables that do not like ‘his’ new committee and in that way they may colour his view of certain people living there and to that end I have no doubt that some members will certainly try and use that tactic to get their own way. Should that happen then a very serious event will have taken place, a complete sea change when a small group of foreigners can in effect speak for and control the actions of all the remaining expats of any country residing in Luxor inasmuch as you either agree with their actions and offer no criticism or you will be deemed as undesirable by the governor. If this did prove to be the case and I was an expat living in Luxor I would be extremely angry about the way they have made themselves a self appointed and sinister committee with powers that could affect the lives of others, very Stasi like to say the least. However, if I were an Egyptian then I would be outraged that the man appointed to run my city and to look after my newly won freedom and independence was dancing to the tunes of a small minority group of foreigners with vested interests. As I have said here before, no government worth it’s salt should need to rely on people with little or no qualifications for the job at hand to advise them on national issues that affect the economy, surely there are plenty of more qualified Egyptians that are involved in tourism? And if they just want to canvas the tourist point of view then just hand out questionnaires at the airport and have a properly constructed group of people analysing the results and then more importantly acting on those results, simple really!

[Grandad]

I find the business of 'The Committee' to be very blinkered and low key. Airey fairy ideas about play areas for kids and walking tours for adults all seem like pie in the sky to me. These things weren't there a few years ago before the 'revolution' and Egypt enjoyed a very healthy tourist industry.

Is the committee SO naive as to believe that some minor initiatives in Luxor will convince the likes of the low cost carriers and the British Government to change their views about travel to Egypt....I think not.

Egypt has national problems that must be solved at national level. As many Egyptians have said to me, they wish they could turn the clock back three years, life was so much better then.

[Horus]

I agree Grandad, I remember many years ago whilst working in a certain ex British colony that had recently gained it's independence I was asked “Nkosi, when does independence come to an end” ? The question was asked by an average person who I considered to be a friend and who prior to them getting independence and although fairly poor was able to feed his family, had stability in his life and relative freedom of thought and movement, in addition he had the welfare and medical care provided to him and his family by a global mining company. He was now asking me this because everything in his life had been turned upside down and very little if anything had improved his lot in life, like many others he thought that the gaining of independence and the changes it would bring would all be good, he believed the promises he was made and he believed the politicians and now he was finding that it was all a lie and that nothing was any better for him. He also believed in his naivety that it had a finite time, that this independence was a transient thing that would come to an end and they would return to the stability they had known before. To this day I have maintained an interest in this ex colony and the progress that it has made as an independent country and am sorry to say that it has been one long story of decline and neglect, I am sure that my old friend would with hindsight prefer to be living in a British colony than to be living in his newly found independent one. It was with great sadness that I had to explain the reality of the situation to my friend.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Totally agree with everything you say H re: Committee. I guess time will tell but having a healthy dose of paranoia I would query the recent efforts to know exactly who all the Expats are along with address and contact info and how, in future, this information will be used. Have worked for gov't too long to not realize actions like this aren't done without an agenda in mind. However I am positive we haven't heard, by far, the last of the Committee and how they are going to insidiously and overtly affect the Expats.

Extremely ominous the veiled threat - don't criticize.......again time will tell.

[Horus]

I would have thought that someone somewhere should already hold this information, but then again if they need the advice of amateurs to promote tourism in a country that has a large part of it’s economy based upon that very product, then perhaps they also need someone capable of collating this already existing information for them as they are sadly incapable of doing so themselves.

[LovelyLadyLux]

@H - quite possible.

Reading between the lines of ALL the posts and threads personally I think there are a few very verbal/gossipy busybody business persons who have, for whatever reason, somehow been able to catch the ear of the Governor. The Governor doesn't really know these people and I'm sure on first meeting they present very well so he has tasked them 1) cause he finds them a nuisance and it is better to know what they're doing than having them just willy nilly promoting who knows what or 2) as you say he is totally misinformed and for whatever reason can't find Egyptians 'in the know' to do the same job.

Just strikes me as to ridiculous ludicrous that a Government would cater in one small city to a bunch of Expats and tout them as the be all and end all.......... :dun:

Be interesting to watch it unfold .......