Beware of Amazon.uk

[Horus]

I had the strangest thing happen today, the postman knocked on my door and handed me a registered letter. When I opened it I found it was from a person trading on Amazon and from whom I had purchased an item via their site, in it he threatened me with and I quote “please alter your comment so that we don’t have to take you to court to have it removed”

Take me to court? Well after rolling about on the floor laughing at his pathetic attempt at a legal threat for me saying (quite rightly) that they had not answered my two previous emails sent via the Amazon system and then stating that I would not buy from this seller again and awarding him 1 out of 5 stars. I will not go into great detail, but suffice to say that it was in response to the usual Amazon “how do you rate this seller” type email and it was answered honestly, nothing nasty just the above comment about lack of any customer contact. He further went on to accuse me of damaging his sales with my comment, although they have at least 10 other comments in a similar vein about their poor customer service on their product page.

To say I was amazed at his pathetic attempt to frighten me is an understatement and although I was about to bin the letter I did decide to contact Amazon about my concern that sellers on their site could use these tactics against what are essentially their own customers. I spoke to a very helpful guy at Amazon and he was as surprised as I was by the sellers letter, but here is the crux of the matter, they said they would investigate, but I would not be informed of the outcome? So I asked them again “why are you exposing your customers to this sort of legal attack for simply answering your questionnaire?” Even had the comment contained anything unsuitable (which it did not) then they (Amazon) are the final arbiter and should not have posted the report, or the complaint should have been made to Amazon. And finally I asked “what are you going to do about it?” “we will pass it on” was the reply, “please send us a copy of his letter” Five minutes later I received an email apologising for the late delivery of my goods? and how these things were beyond their control, er what? The mind boggles !!!!!!!!

So folks be warned, if you make a comment on any Amazon product or seller you may find yourself with a similar threatening letter and Amazon will do absolutely nothing about it, so its back to high street shopping for me in the future at least I can get some street photography practice in. Needles to say that I spent a large part of the day typing up a suitable four page reply to the person in question, but discretion prevents me from posting it on here ............ for now.

[LovelyLadyLux]

I buy "free" Kindle books off of Amazon.com. Not sure I've ever really purchased anything tangible from them.

I do see though even on the free Kindle books that some of the people who have 'purchased' them have obviously rated them which then ranks them in sales and, while I haven't bothered to read them, there are comments attached. I haven't paid close attention to the process of providing feedback as I've never bothered to provide any.

Quite an interesting experience H. IF Amazon has sellers selling stuff am sure Amazon would really want to have their sellers vetted by consumers so that they can keep the quality of what the sellers are selling high. If somebody gets a less than satisfactory item or service this would also directly impact Amazon and you're think they'd want to 'get on this' immediately and do whatever to keep the consumers happy.

Threatening a lawsuit actually boggles the mind. This can only be added to my 'stupid idiotic life experiences that people experience' category. Whatever is the seller thinking AND why would Amazon not want to investigate this immediately. I can understand they can't report back to the consumer all the gory details but there should be some level of report back to complete the circle. Maybe they need to buy one of their own books on how Business works really well when you practice 360 communications - in other worlds - you complete the loop. OR even if it is 180 they end up reporting back......

Sorry you had this experience H.

[Ruby Slippers]

I occasionally buy from Amazon - but never put a comment! I also never bother to rate a seller!

[Horus]

An interesting development was that I received a further two emails last night from Amazon saying as how I had not received the goods they would be crediting my account with the money back! To say I am appalled by their incompetence is an understatement and I asked them if they also wanted to make me into a thief as well as being abused by one of their sellers as I had never asked for one and the goods were in fact very satisfactory. Needless to say I spent over an hour this morning in contacting them and making them correct the latest cock-up they had made, that was followed throughout the day by two further calls from customer service people asking about the same questions and how they could resolve the issue. I suggested that maybe if their company had joined up writing when it came to customer services we may eventually get there, but I am not holding my breath.
“Is there anything else we can do for you sir” was the last comment.
“Yes there is” I replied, “you may cancel the Kindle Fire I have on order as I will be buying a Kobo from WH Smiths instead”

[LovelyLadyLux]

Doesn't sound like Department A is talking to Department B and vice versa and then everybody is talking all at the same time.

Like RS I don't tend to comment, rate or rank either. I always figured that what I'm buying is free so haven't put the energy into commenting.

Personally I do love my Kindle and have been thinking from time to time to upgrade to the Kindle Fire. That being said I've never run into the Customer Service people and have no idea if they're compitent or not.

What I do not like at all is when companies break off their customer service division from people who are actually selling the goods. Once this break is made the people in Customer Service, IMO, do not have the same investment in the Customer. THey were not there to help me, talk to me, smooze me, whatever when I bought it.

If I'd slaved and laboured and made 10 trips into a store to buy a special item OR if I had millions and could purchase at whim and the salesperson knew this I'm sure they'd have a bit more concern about helping me with whatever product I purchased. There would be a relationship established. Now getting something online you have no connection to a seller who is probably possibly selling third party and Amazon or any other company is just providing a generic customer service function. Can't say that the seller or Amazon/company has any real relationship or insight into their customer. Doesn't make it go easy if you have to return anything.

[Horus]

I did ask them a question that stung them somewhat and they attempted a blustering response when I asked :
“If I give you my personal details which of course includes my home address, is that information not covered by my rights under the UK Data Protection Act?” after a short pause he agreed that it probably would be the case. (which of course I know that it is)

“So if you divulge my home address to the seller, then you do so on the condition that it is used for the express purpose of them supplying me with the goods and nothing more?” again after a pause he replied “I would think so”

“So if a seller uses that information for another purpose other than in connection with the goods, is it not a breach of my rights under the said act?”

“Er, we will need to get back to you on that”

No doubt that will keep their legal eagles busy for a couple of hours.

[Winged Isis]

Ditto, RS.

Like your style, H!

[LovelyLadyLux]

Geeez H - now you've got all the lawyers, attorneys and solicitors called out on a Saturday too! Guess the Risk Management folks will be burning the midnight oil by now.......

[Grandad]

As a general rule I do not complete any 'review request' for Amazon or its partner suppliers. I must say though that I have always found their delivery arrangements to be very fast and efficient.

There have been a couple of occasions when I have returned an item and always found their return procedure very simple and user friendly even to the extent that you can print your own return postage label at no cost to yourself.

However, for the last item that I returned they credited me with more than what i paid and also credited me with the postage. I did not contact them about THEIR mistake but probably put myself at risk of legal proceedings having mentioned it here.

As a plus point for Amazon UK. they have a BLACK FRIDAY week from 19 to 25 November so there may be some good deals on offer. I want a second (or third) hard drive so will be watching with interest.

[Horus]

No problems with Amazon per se Grandad, rather their inability to guard you against harassment from their own Market Place traders. Most people assume that they are buying from Amazon themselves as they are looking at items on their site and if they make comments or place product reviews they believe that they are doing this under the Amazon umbrella, but unless it actually says "supplied & dispatched by Amazon" when you click the button then you are in their eyes buying from a market place seller and not from them, even though all your dealings including payment are through your own account with them. More importantly you do not have to have strayed away from the Amazon listings for those particular goods to someone else’s site or have clicked another site link. So if for example, if you had searched their site for a camera and it listed the one you liked and you decide to buy it and click the buy option, if the product line did not say "supplied & dispatched by Amazon" even though it may have been say a ‘Cannon’ product that could be purchased from many outlets, if it said something like “fulfilled by Camerashop UK” or similar, you are then deemed to have purchased from ‘The Market Place’ and not from Amazon. This may seem like a technicality on the surface, but it does allow them to in fact distance themselves from any problem you may have with the seller. I should add however that I personally have had superb service from Amazon in the past and it is only the dealings with this particular seller that has raised these issues and the inability of Amazon to satisfactorily address it and it is for this reason that I shall probably close my account with them later today. Not that this will have any particular impact on them or cause them any concern, but at least I will feel happy that this sort of thing cannot happen in the future by using their services.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Any further updates? Just curious if Amazon.UK has had a further response.

[Grandad]

I have used Amazon quite a lot the last week or so and their service has been exceptional. I was impressed yesterday that three items ordered on different days and at different times arrived together in one box. They must have a pretty good order/dispatch system.

Nothing to do with Horus's problem but their general service and speed of dispatch is always very fast. Just one outstanding item ordered Friday....will arrive tomorrow or if not it will dispel all my favourable comments...

[Horus]

The problem was never with Amazon or their delivery Grandad, it is their absolute lack of any support if you have a problem with one of their market place sellers, they just sit on the side lines and are more than useless, lets just hope you never have to experience their indifference or the way they hide behind the data protection act. Up front it is all concern and helpful, but basically you are dealing with an automated machine in which one part barely knows what the other is doing and you count for very little in the scheme of things. They are very quick to placate you with quick refunds or replacements, but have a real problem to resolve and watch the support become nothing but smoke and mirrors. I am now resolved to buying from others where possible, not that it will affect them in any particular way, but at least I vote with my feet or at least my money, in this regard I am resolved to buy from companies who pay their full UK taxes, so instead of the new Kindle Fire, I bought Mrs H the new Kobo Glo from WH Smiths instead, great service it took one phone call, they reserved it and I collected it from the girl on the till.

[LovelyLadyLux]

I've not heard of a Kobo Glo. Kindle Fire is being touted everywhere here but not heard of the Kobo Glo. Is it specific to the UK? And does it give you access to a library of books?

I've been really wanting to get a Kindle Fire but just haven't made up my mind to get one yet.

[Grandad]

one part barely knows what the other is doing.

A totally unrelated subject H but that problem is endemic. Next June I have a field test followed on the same morning by an eye appointment for which the field test is required.

I had a letter this week apologising that they have had to reschedule my eye appointment to May. So now MY FIELD TEST FOLLOWS THE EYE APPOINTMENT. Left and right hand syndrome I think.

[Horus]

LLL, the Kobo Glo reader is not as sophisticated as the Kindle Fire which is really more of a tablet than just an e-reader. Mrs H just would not get to grips with it and being a complete non computer person it would be a waste of time. However the Kobo Glo does have its equivalents in both Kindle & Nook product ranges, my own opinion is that the Kobo Glo is out front. I am not sure what the limitations are when applied to Canada or USA, but we have always been ripped off in this respect especially by the likes of Amazon who will only process your UK orders via the UK sites so we finish up paying in £ Sterling what you would pay in $, so we in effect pay around a third more for the same product as you. Here in the UK the three main e-reader names each are affiliated to a particular publishing outlet, so Kindle books have to be purchased via Amazon and here at least they do not participate in the UK library lending scheme and all their books are in the .MOBI format which is not universal.

Nook, are allied to the Barnes & Noble publishing house and all books must be purchased via that site, but as the book format is .EPUB it means that other sites may be used.

Kobo is associated with the WH Smiths outlet which is quite big within the UK compared with Barnes & Noble and much better known, they also use the more universal .EPUB format which means that you can either purchase via WH Smiths or any other .EPUB outlet which is the most common ebook format. More importantly from my perspective is that the Kobo reader will happily download loaned library books via the free Adobe Digital Editions software which seamlessly interfaces with the Kobo reader in downloading and managing the DRM restrictions that are placed upon library loaned books, something that the Kindle cannot do. (at least here in UK)

I already have the e-reader here at home(ready to be wrapped for Christmas) and have tried the library download using my membership and it works fine. In addition I have already converted .MOBI files into EPUB files by using ‘Calibre’ software and that also works with the Kobo and interacts without any problems, so all of the .MOBI library that I have built up for her Kindle will also play on the Kobo reader once I run them through Calibre.

As you know she already has a Kindle basic reader, but she often reads in the evening and I am always telling her to put a light on as she will damage her eyes reading in low light, but to no avail. I even bought her one of those clip on lights which are very good but have limitations and are a bit cumbersome. So when I saw the new ‘glo light’ models on offer which are basically an ereader with a specially designed built in LED light source that illuminates the screen without glare or reflection I gave it some serious thought.

All three major suppliers have a similar device and all within a similar price range and all use the e-ink technology so little to choose between them. If you do not wish to ‘guild the Lily’ by buying a device that has features (as in Mrs H’s case) you will not use, then the Kindle Fire is ruled out and you are left with price and versatility. Now in my opinion an e-reader is for reading on not for surfing the web, so my priorities are how versatile is it for books and can it use our free libraries, on the second point we can rule out the Kindle. On versatility a Kindle can only access books via Amazon whereas the others will download from other sites, then there is the comparison between the light itself. They all seem to behave in a similar manner with possibly the Kobo and Kindle coming out tops. The Kobo has a very nice slider setting that will take it from really bright to hardly lit at all, Ideal for reading in bed or in the dark. The light itself on all versions is NOT backlit as on an LCD television or a PC or a tablet, but rather it shines at a very low angle across the screen in a uniform manner and it does not glare out into your eyes. You therefore have the option of normal daylight reading as typical of any e-ink screen, or the ‘Glo’ light for when its dark. Finally you need to take into account the battery consumption and on that the Kobo comes out quite well at around 1 month on a charge although all of the makers times claims are very subjective.

The Kobo Glo is a touch screen and very un-cluttered using only two buttons, one to turn it off or put it to sleep and the other for the light. It has a very pleasant soft feel about the case unlike the hard plastic feel of a Kindle. The screen size is the same 6” but it is slightly smaller lengthways. It does have Wi-fi and can connect to the web if required and the books can be displayed as shelves or other options such as by author, generally it has all of the setting options you come to expect of a typical e-reader, it also has an expansion slot to take a mini SDHC card up to 32 Gb, so it will never run out of storage space.

Overall it looks like the best buy of the bunch, but I have limited time to play around with it to avoid Mrs H from seeing it, so I can only try out a few things and load her some books ready for Christmas, but I will report back in the new year. As I say it is my preferred option having looked at the opposition and I am sure that the sales war between them will hot up with possibly Amazon dropping their prices to grab a bigger market share as I reckon the competition is going to be very tough, but to me the .EPUB format and not being tied into Amazon is a big plus.

[LovelyLadyLux]

Very interesting H. The books I borrow from the local library in Olympia (not sure I'll get them here in Canada but maybe) EPUB and MOBI. On my laptop I can only take the EPUB as I'm reading them in Acrobat Reader. In the library's quarterly newsletter they are saying that they now do have books you can apparently read on your Kindle but I never did figure out how nor did I explore this further. The newsletter also said that it was up to the Patron to figure out the library/Kindle link and was quite explicit in stating that library staff would NOT help with technical questions about this.

The Kobo Glo sounds pretty neat. As I have the basic black and white Kindle with no lighting on the screen I've been seriously thinking of upgrading to a Kindle Fire but I already know I don't want it to watch movies, read magazines, daily newspapers and/or surf the web.

Do let us know how Mrs H does with it one she gets and uses it. Am sure it'll show up here, might already even be here and just something I haven't heard about.