Fasting water at Ramadan ?

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Fasting water at Ramadan ?

Post by Ebikatsu »

Do you think that water should be fasted at Ramadan?
Where is the evidence?, and what is the relevance?

The advent of Ramadan prompts Gamal Nkrumah to probe Egypt's fasting traditions


"Ye who believe! Fasting is prescribed to you as it was prescribed to those before you, that you may attain piety." The Holy Quran

"Then came to him the disciples of John [the Baptist] saying, why do we and the Pharisees fast often, but thy disciples fast not?" Matthew

9: 14, New Testament of the Bible

Fasting is no mere navel-gazing exercise. Neither is it about harried-looking, half- starved zealots waiting to break the fast. Different religions interpret the concept of fasting in different ways. The devil, so the saying goes, is in the details. All religions -- monotheistic and non-monotheistic -- acknowledge the importance of fasting in the procedures of spiritual regeneration.

Fasting has long fascinated me like nothing else about world religions. For two decades, I knew I was obliged to undertake the fast of Ramadan if for no other reason than to maintain my bona fides as a Muslim -- at least as far as my two sons were concerned.

However, I must confess that my pleasure- seeking nature precluded me from being drawn to what I considered to be something of a life-threatening experience. I was never convinced that fasting is therapeutic, nor, from what I observed on the streets of Cairo during the holy month of Ramadan, was I convinced that it was a particularly spiritually uplifting exercise. Indeed, people tend to be especially short-tempered and belligerent when fasting. Tempers flare, and spiritual considerations can take a back seat to more mundane concerns.

Ramadan, the ninth month of the Islamic calendar, is the holiest of all months. The grand mufti of Al-Azhar, Sheikh Ali Gomaa, has described Ramadan as a "time for purification". Indeed, it is now acknowledged in medical circles that detoxification is one result of fasting. However, it is a prerequisite for this to occur that those fasting from food drink copious amounts of water in order to detoxify their entire system. Colon cleansing is yet another consequence of fasting.

However, be that as it may, a clean bowl isn't the only reason behind fasting. For, since time immemorial, fasting has been associated with the cleansing of the soul as much as the cleansing of the body. Indeed, it is the clean soul that matters the most.

The dating of Ramadan dates to the tradition of moon observation instituted by the third caliph, Omar Ibn Al-Khattab, and to the exile ( hijra ) of the Prophet Mohamed to Yathrib, or Medina, on 16 July 622 CE, according to the Western Gregorian Calendar.

The calculations of the lunar months in Islam conform to the lunar cycle, going from one crescent moon to the next. However, the Arabic root of the word Ramadan is rmd -- intense heat. This is because the ancient pre-Islamic Arab calendar was of Aramaic origin and was based on the solar system, Ramadan coinciding with the hottest month of the solar year. Islam, borrowing from the Yemeni or South Arabian lunar reckoning, discarded the ancient Aramaic solar calendar, while retaining the original names and designations of the months.

During Ramadan, Muslims fast from dawn to dusk. This year, for instance, Muslims will initially be fasting for 15 hours a day at the beginning of the month. Towards the end of the month this will be closer to 14 hours of abstaining from eating, drinking and sexual liaisons. The Festival of Breaking the Fast, Eid Al-Fitr, heralds the end of Ramadan and the ushering in of the month of Shawwal.

Fasting is typical of both Islam and Christianity. Devout Muslims also fast on Mondays and Thursdays in addition to during the month of Ramadan, in a tradition that bears a resemblance to the prescriptions found in the ancient Jewish Talmud. Such weekly fasting is considered sunna (a custom of the Prophet Mohamed). The ancient Pharisees also fasted on Mondays and Thursdays, then the busiest market days, in order that people would see them looking forlorn and know that they were fasting. This, however, loses sight of the true import of fasting, which aims to control gluttony, impure thoughts, words and deeds.

In contrast to these traditions, Jesus Christ seems not to have considered fasting to be particularly important, being almost easygoing when it came to fasting from food. The Bible does state that he occasionally fasted, but it is ambiguous as to when he did and why. Yet, it is clear that Jesus did not observe the traditional Jewish fasts and that he did not insist that his disciples follow the rules to the letter either.

"When ye fast, be not as the hypocrites of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces that they may appear unto men to fast. But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thine head and wash thy face; that thou appear not unto men to fast," the Bible quotes Jesus as saying in St Matthew's Gospel.

Neither Jesus nor his disciples made fasting obligatory, even if some modern Christian churches -- Orthodox and Roman Catholic, for example -- scrupulously adhere to set dates for fasting, perhaps the most widely observed being during the month of Lent. While the majority of Western Christians no longer fast regularly, the Coptic Christians of Egypt are more punctilious as far as fasting is concerned. Indeed, devout Copts fast for roughly half the year by abstaining from animal and dairy products on certain fast days. Abstention from the use of cooking oil is also observed by some Eastern Orthodox churches, including the Copts, though only the most devout Copts now abstain from eating fried food. This type of fasting is called "water and salt" because salt is the only item used for seasoning.

Abstinence from food is a concept associated with the monotheistic religions. The Bible is replete with examples of fasting as an instrument of spiritual preparation. According to the Old Testament, Moses fasted for 40 days before God revealed the Ten Commandments to him in the Sinai. Daniel fasted for three weeks before receiving his vision, and Elijah fasted for 40 days in preparation for his temptation by the Devil. Later, Jesus also fasted in the wilderness in order to resist the Devil's temptations.

The ancient Greek division of soma, or body, and pneuma, or soul, forms the basis of a psychosomatic union of soul and body, which is important in many Orthodox Christian Churches. But the fasting traditions of Christianity have their roots in Judaism, the more direct forerunner of Christianity. "I humbled my soul with fasting," sings the author of Psalm 35, and both the Old and the New Testaments of the Bible often depict fasting as a sign of distress and grief. A seven-day fast was held as a sign of mourning for King Saul, and King David fasted when Abner was killed, for example.

Fasting for Roman Catholics is prerequisite during the so-called Ember Days, being four series of Wednesdays, Fridays, Saturdays that correspond to the four seasons after the first Sunday in Lent and before the Feast of the Pentecost. However, in general terms, particularly in the Western churches, fasting and religious asceticism in general are now regarded as outdated concepts, and some Protestant churches argue that they have no biblical authority.

Even so, in the Roman Catholic tradition and in the traditions of certain Eastern Orthodox churches, fasting is still recommended, with Mondays being devoted to the angels, and therefore regarded as fasting days for novice nuns and monks encouraged to lead "angelic" lives. Ash Wednesday and Good Friday are regarded as fast days by many of the world's 1.5 billion Roman Catholics. The Eucharist fast, taking place before receiving the Eucharist, is also widely upheld by Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians.

Non-conventional monotheists, such as the Bahaais, likewise fast during the Bahaai month of Ala, which coincides with March. During this period, Bahaais abstain from food, drinking and smoking, but they are permitted to consume prescribed medications. Those undertaking heavy labour are permitted to eat simple meals in private, a practice not regarded as breaking the fast. People under the age of 15, or over the age of 70, are also not required to fast. Bahaais are, after all teetotalers. Bahaai women who are pregnant, nursing or menstruating are not obliged to fast.

The non-monotheistic religions of course also have ancient fasting traditions. Novice Buddhist monks and nuns do not eat after a frugal vegetarian meal at noon until the next day. Prince Siddharta, the Buddha, also urged his followers to observe the fast. Hindus, too, fast the Navaratri --Nine Nights fast -- when they abstain from alchoholic beverages, don't eat salt or rice and survive solely on fresh fruit.

All this means that though the vast majority of Christians and Muslims understand that fasting plays an important role in their religions, for many the original objectives of fasting have been forgotten. Fasting seems in danger of losing its spiritual dimension. Some people are even more interested in food and eating during the periods outside the fast.

For Copts, there is a whole range of dishes associated with fasting periods. According to Magda Mehdawy, the Alexandrian food writer, "Coptic cuisine is based on the food of the Pharaohs," and dishes consumed during the fasts include fuuliya, broad bean sprouts with chard and coriander, and bisara, crushed beans stewed with greens. Bean sprouts with green mallow is another ancient favourite. Chard stalks, as well as leaves, are used in this vegetarian dish.

Bean sprout kishk, or kishk fuul nabit, is not strictly speaking a Coptic fasting dish, since kishk contains yoghurt -- a dairy product. During certain Coptic fasting periods, the consumption of fish is permitted, and a favourite dish is Greek-style grilled fish, known as samak singari, with the fish laid flat and the spine removed. Chopped celery, crushed garlic, onion rings, diced tomatoes and thinly sliced lemon are used as garnish.

Egyptian Muslims have adopted certain Coptic dishes and discarded others. Brown lentils or, ads abu gibba, a traditional Coptic fasting dish, is not traditionally eaten by Muslims in Ramadan. However, fuul medames, stewed broad beans, is a popular Sohour dish among Muslims, regarded as both filling and nourishing. (Sohour is the meal taken before dawn before the fast).

Taamiya, or fried crushed bran patties, better known in the West as falafel, is another Sohour dish, though one that has never quite attained the popularity of fuul medammes, at least in Egypt. Perhaps this is because the patties can induce indigestion, and they can induce thirst, especially when Ramadan falls in summer.

Strained broad beans, fuul missafi, are typically Coptic, and, like kushari bil ads, or migadarra, one of the most popular Egyptian vegetarian dishes, they are not traditionally regarded as Ramadan fare. Pasta, vermicelli, rice, lentils and chickpeas all go into this authentically Egyptian dish. The daqqa, or tomato, garlic and hot pepper sauce that goes with the lentil dish, is not really suitable for breaking the fast in Ramadan. Yellow lentil soup, on the other hand, is ideal for breaking the Ramadan fast, as is ads abazi -- lentils with chicken.

Fasting in contemporary Egypt may have become as much a mundane as a spiritual affair.


http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2009/962/li1.htm


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Post by Horus »

Just a thought :) Is it just a coincidence that Moses, Daniel, Elijah and Jesus all fasted for many weeks before receiving their visions? Or are we just seeing the resulting hallucinations resulting from near starvation?
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Post by Ebikatsu »

Horus wrote:Just a thought :) Is it just a coincidence that Moses, Daniel, Elijah and Jesus all fasted for many weeks before receiving their visions? Or are we just seeing the resulting hallucinations resulting from near starvation?
Never thought of that :?


I'm seeing fried sausages right now dipped in egg yolk and HP and it's only been since dawn :mrgreen:
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Post by Horus »

Mmm..... just had a couple of freshly made Bacon & Egg sarnies on white crusty bread with HP sauce :P a nice cup of coffee (Nescafe) and a couple of Bakewell tarts (only small ones :P ) just to keep me going until dinner time when I will be having freshly made steak & kidney pudding chips & gravy :) might even see if Mrs H can rustle up a few mushy peas to go with it. :lol:
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Post by DJKeefy »

I was on about this the other night to some Egyptians, infact it is always my topic every year...

Im trying to put this into words but cant find the right way of saying it :lol:

Let me give it a go ......

The giving up of cigarettes, food, etc i can understand, they tell me its a time for the poor and a time to see how it feels for a poor persaon who as nothing (something along them lines)..
But they still have mobiles. tv, dvd'd, pc's etc so they are not really feeling how a poor person would feel.
Also water is free (from the street water machines) so a poor person can drink whenever.

I wont smoke or eat in front of Egyptians at the time of fasting but i will drink water in front of them from the street machines, i totally think its wrong to go without water in such an hot climate.

Hope you understand all that, im having a brain disfunction today and with my English getting poorer by the month its a wonder anyone understands me :lol:
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Post by Horus »

Clear as mud Keefy :) :lol:
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Post by HEPZIBAH »

DJKeefy wrote:I was on about this the other night to some Egyptians, infact it is always my topic every year...

I wont smoke or eat in front of Egyptians at the time of fasting but i will drink water in front of them from the street machines, i totally think its wrong to go without water in such an hot climate.
[face=Comic Sans MS]It's something I think about quite a lot too and try to understand.

On the issue of drinking water in Luxor, I heard a couple of years ago that the water machines on the streets were switched off during Ramadan. Is this still the case?

It's not unusual to read that we should be more sensitive and sympathtic to Muslims who are going without during Ramadan, but it is often not the food and water that is mentioned but the cigarettes and alcohol that are the issues. As these are theoreticly haram in Islam, why should I have to be more careful/respectful/sympathetic?

I have no problems with fasting, infact I do it myself from time to time, and can and will fast for a few days, not eating anything at all, I do need to drink some water during that time though. I don't do it for religio/legalistic reasons but I do believe there are times when it can be helpful. I don't make an announcement about it, just get on and do it and certainly have no problem with others eating or drinking around me. If I have chosen to fast then any temptation is my problem, not that of others. The only time I would get irritated by it is if people deliberately try to tempt and taunt me, that is just bad manners.

I also have no problem with the feast at the end of Ramadan, but I do find it hard to get my head around the virtual nightly feasting of many. Surely all that is necessary is to have a fairly normal meal.[/face]
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Post by Ebikatsu »

Horus wrote:Mmm..... just had a couple of freshly made Bacon & Egg sarnies on white crusty bread with HP sauce :P a nice cup of coffee (Nescafe) and a couple of Bakewell tarts (only small ones :P ) just to keep me going until dinner time when I will be having freshly made steak & kidney pudding chips & gravy :) might even see if Mrs H can rustle up a few mushy peas to go with it. :lol:
Damn you!! :mrgreen:
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Post by Ebikatsu »

DJKeefy wrote:I was on about this the other night to some Egyptians, infact it is always my topic every year...

Im trying to put this into words but cant find the right way of saying it :lol:

Let me give it a go ......

The giving up of cigarettes, food, etc i can understand, they tell me its a time for the poor and a time to see how it feels for a poor persaon who as nothing (something along them lines)..
But they still have mobiles. tv, dvd'd, pc's etc so they are not really feeling how a poor person would feel.
Also water is free (from the street water machines) so a poor person can drink whenever.

I wont smoke or eat in front of Egyptians at the time of fasting but i will drink water in front of them from the street machines, i totally think its wrong to go without water in such an hot climate.

Hope you understand all that, im having a brain disfunction today and with my English getting poorer by the month its a wonder anyone understands me :lol:
Hi Keefy and Hepzi,


I don't fast water. I don't believe that you should.
God would not want a person to harm themselves, so depriving yourself of water, we all know especially in this heat leads to kidney stones, cystitis, toxins building up in the blood, thickening of the platelets leading to strokes, all sorts of things so NO God would not want anyone to do that.
Dehydration causes an increase in heartbeat and blood pressure drops, in folk like me with low blood pressure that is not a good thing.
Low potassium can lead to heart beat disturbances.
Low sodium can lead to fits, muscle cramps and the heart is a muscle too, so no I don't believe that people should fast water.
It's too risky and leads to problems later on in life.

It's good to fast food though, to detox but you need to drink to wash out the toxins.

Remember back then most Arabs were illiterate. Most here today never pick up a book ;) so basically you can tell a nation anything and they will believe it.
How many Egyptians do you know in Luxor who read anything except the sports and crime page of the newspaper ;)
How many read books?

Mohammed Abdou is a man who was born a 100 years too early

'The conclusions he drew from his travels were that Muslims suffer from ignorance about their own religion and the despotism of unjust rulers.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Abduh

http://www.cis-ca.org/voices/a/abduh.htm

;)
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Post by Goddess »

I read this in the paper this morning, couldn't quite believe it!

155 arrested for ignoring fast


AROUND 155 Egyptians have been arrested in Aswan Governorate for allegedly eating or drinking on purpose during the hours of fasting in Ramadan, local media reported yesterday. They were arrested as part of a campaign, which started at the beginning of the Muslim holy month to target 'those who profess ',caught eating and drinking during daylight hours in Ramadan.

The campaign is bothering human rights activists. "It's over the top and a total violation of people's rights," says Gamal Eid, the head of the Arabic Network for Human Rights. "It also reveals the conservatism that has infected some people in the Egyptian society." Eid has disclosed that it isn't the first campaign of its kind in certain Egyptian governorates, adding that there "have been several bids to launch such a campaign in Cairo, but they've been rejected as it's totally illegal".

Another human rights activist, Negad el-Baradei, stresses that there is no law that allows non-fasting Muslims to be arrested, as their freedom is enshrined in the laws on freedom of religion. "Eating or drinking in Ramadan during the hours of fasting is not illegal and no-one is supposed to intervene with people's relationships with God."

There are similar campaigns in countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, where people caught eating or drinking during the fasting hours, whether Muslims or non- Muslims, can be sent to jail for a month.

http://www.egyptiangazette.net.eg
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Post by HEPZIBAH »

[face=Comic Sans MS]That is shocking and a tad frightening too.[/face]

"Eating or drinking in Ramadan during the hours of fasting is not illegal and no-one is supposed to intervene with people's relationships with God."

[face=Comic Sans MS]I agree with the above statement. Surely fasting, and facing and dealing with the temptations incurred, is between the individual and God. To make a judgement about someone 'who profeses' but is cought eating or drinking during Ramadan is tantamount to putting themselves greater than God, and surely that has to be a sin. I am reminded of Jesus saying "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".[/face]
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Post by HEPZIBAH »

[face=Comic Sans MS]Ebi, I whole heartedly agree with you about water. Infact leading up to Ramadan I was trying to convince a muslim friend of mine who has been known to suffer from kidney stones and has been having problems with high blood pressure the importance that even if he fasts from food he should endeavour to drink water even if he cuts down on his normal fluid intake.

As for me, I'm not known to go much further than the dustbin without a bottle of water with me. :roll: [/face]
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Post by Horus »

Just another example of fanatics imposing their own religious beliefs on others. I have to call into question any religion that enforces its beliefs through threats.
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Post by Ebikatsu »

If the people don't start to wake up soon the country will become another Saudi.

The Government really have to tackle this in a big way.

:(
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Post by Hurghadapat »

I have seen the police prowling the streets in Hurghada looking for any egyptian smoking,eating or drinking during Ramadan,they also tried to take my husband from just outside of the house because he was allegedly smoking a cigarette,he managed to get away with it as he had just come out of hospital after an operation and was unable to fast.He was not smoking it on the street he had lit it in the house and was just about to throw it away as he came onto the street but they took what was left of the cigarette and where going to use it as evidence. :?
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Post by Horus »

The whole thing is ridiculous! what is the point in having an observance that is meant to show the devotion of the faithful, then making everyone do it whether they want to or not, make way for the Taliban I say.
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Post by PRchick »

It would seem to defeat the purpose. I suppose their reasoning is that to eat or drink in public shows a disrespect for God and other Muslims. But you really can't legislate religion. You can't change someone's heart. Only God can do that.
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Post by jewel »

The whole ramadan thing just leaves me cold I'm afraid as I believe that everyone has a right to practice whatever they believe, but not to have it influence others. If you choose to deny yourself whatever - great, but just do it and don't expect other who choose not to to change their behaviour in any way.
I am also not a great fan of hypocricsy and the whole thing with these practices reaffirms to me that is what it really is - why fast all day and gorge at night? Better as in lent to just give one simple thing up or at least cut back in total consumption. And in these days of global crisis wouldn't that be a better option....look at all the ramadan lamps etc and mobile phones ,cars, TV, perhaps giving up something like this may be better on a global scale?
Just a thought ,but an observation I made both living in the middle east and here in the UK :|
I heard a story the other day of a man who went to his local supermarket demanding to know why there was pork in a certain product and demanding compensation or he would get the police!! Eeer - right bring in the pork police this calls for a public flogging!!! :roll:
I as a vegetarian am always careful about what I eat and read labels etc but find fresh is best always and I could never give up my 2 litres of willow water a day :D
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