Germany and the Immigrants

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Germany and the Immigrants

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Why do you figure that Germany IS taking so many immigrants? Do they really want cheap labour?

OR are they trying to portray an image that anybody can change? (Am referencing Germany during WWII and the holocaust)

I guess I'm just not understanding why they're so keen on taking so many refugees. Are they not worried about the impact this is going to make on their own people? The threat(s) of terrorism?

It is one thing to help and assist bona fide families to escape atrocities but I just can't seem to make me believe this many people are all going to adapt and change to western ways and they're not full of terrorists who, once settled, are going to attack our way(s) of life.


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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by Horus »

Germany is a complicated case, first of all they are still atoning for the world wars and have a bit of a guilt complex, but you also have the unique situation of it having been a divided country for many years. Merkel herself comes from the less affluent East Germany that benefited greatly after unification and so she has a different mindset than someone having lived all their lives in an affluent society. Also Germany is quite a large country compared to say the UK and the population density is very low in comparison, so they can afford to accommodate more people, however I reckon that the main driving force behind this is economical. As with the rest of Europe and especially the UK our populations have been either static or declining, this has resulted in an ageing population as a proportion of the workforce available to support all of the social requirements that are needed such as pensions, health, defence etc. What all countries including the UK need are more people working and paying taxes to support those in retirement, hence the recent need to push up the retirement age.

By allowing in a million refugees Merkel is hoping to fill that labour gap and instead of giving work visas to Turkish workers which has been their way of getting major projects built in the past, they will instead have an ethnic work force that is now part of the German population. Overall it may well be a clever plan by Merkel to solve this labour conundrum as although it is easy enough to get foreign workers from the likes of Turkey, eventually they return home again, this could be the ideal solution. What is very uncertain is how the ethnic German population will react too this massive influx, we have to remember Germany’s past record on this score. Since the two wars Germany has always felt a sense of shame for past misdeeds and gone out of its way to demonstrate that it has changed as a nation. The only problem for Merkel is that the far right have been on the rise in Germany and also in Austria and if we are to learn anything from two world wars it is that once they get behind someone with charisma then the Germans are fanatical.

The EU was France and Germany’s way of ensuring that this could not happen again by making all of the European economies interdependent, but as we have recently seen with Greece this European dream is very fragile and many people are becoming disenchanted with the experiment. Should events take a different turn and Germany start to feel the strains of a faltering Euro or political instability then things could become very nasty and we all know from history that the German people will look for a scapegoat and who is that likely to be? 8)
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Quite agree with your analysis. There isn't too much here discussion-wise about the 'why' behind why Germany is taking so many refugees although there are news clips from various other country leaders condemning this action (i.e. Hungary).

I was thinking to myself they are taking this many as they wanted a source of cheap labour but was just my own thinking.

I highly doubt Germany will ever ever get themselves totally past their actions/behaviours of the war in my life time.

Interestingly, via my work, I met a man in the USA who had been with the American military stationed in Germany for close to a decade prior to the wall coming down. His opinion of Germany is that IF the same circumstance of pre-war Germany occurred again the German people would totally repeat everything they did before in a heart beat.
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by Horus »

I see that our PM Mr CaMORON is in Lebanon visiting refugee camps and has received high praise from their president for Britains support and aid given to them for the refugees in that country. Its about time that someone recognised our huge contributions in the area and that the bleeding hearts and do gooders shut up wailing about what we have done to help the current situation. It is now around 1 Billion pounds spread around the area on schooling and infra structure, compare that with the Saudi’s offer to build Germany 200 mosques, the mind boggles as they have yet to take any refugees. Finally it seems as if Germany is starting to see the light and today ‘suspended’ the Shengein agreement that allows for unrestricted travel through the European borders. If that is kept in place and the Hungarians continue to implement their new border fence, it may just halt the flow. However the only practical solution for Europe is a radical one, it must act militarily and with great force to make a large area safe for the Syrian people and that way there will be no need for them to leave Syria. Unfortunately this once again plays into the hands of Arab neighbours who rather than supporting this course of action will once again use it to lambaste the West for its aggression, it is better for them to stand by and criticise than to take some decisive action themselves, once again we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t. 8)
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Since I'm kinda linked to Saudi Arabia in an odd way and since there has been some discussion (somewhere) that Saudi is not doing anything to help or assist the refugees - I got this message today so am going to share it here:


Ministry of Foreign Affairs - Saudi Arabia

The Kingdom of ‪#‎SaudiArabia‬ does not intend to speak about its efforts to support ‪#‎Syrian‬ brothers and sisters, during their distress, as it has, since the beginning of the problem, dealt with the situation from a religious and humane perspective, and did not wish to boast about its efforts or attempt to gain media coverage, an official source of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs said, adding that media reports have contained erroneous and misleading information, and the Kingdom now considers it important to discuss its efforts with appropriate facts and figures.

The official source explained that the following actions have been taken by the Kingdom:

1.The Kingdom has received around 2.5 million Syrians since the beginning of the conflict. In order to ensure their dignity and safety, the Kingdom adopted a policy that does not treat them as refugees or place them in refugee camps. They have been given the freedom to move about the country and those who wish to remain in Saudi Arabia (some hundreds of thousands) have been given legal residency status like the remaining residents. ‌ Their residency comes with the rights to receive free medical care, to join the labor market and to attend schools and universities. This was contained in a royal decree in 2012 that instructed public schools to accept Syrian students. According to government statistics, the public school system has accepted more than 100,000 Syrian students.

2.The Kingdom’s efforts were not limited to accepting our Syrian brothers and sisters after their crisis; it also extended its efforts to support and care for millions of Syrian refugees in neighboring countries such as Jordan, Lebanon and others. Efforts included providing them with humanitarian assistance, in coordination with the host governments and with international human aid organizations. Aid was provided, in cash and kind.

3.The aid provided by Saudi Arabia to the Syrian people totals around $700 million, according to the statistics of the Third International Humanitarian Pledging Conference for Syria, which took place in Kuwait on March 31, 2015. Government aid and aid provided by the National Campaign, are included in that number.

4.Humanitarian aid provided to Syrians by the Kingdom consisted of food, medical, academic, residential supplies and included the establishment of Saudi specialized clinics in refugee camps, especially at Zaatari Camp in Jordan. The Kingdom was able to provide medical care in the form of immunization, preventive treatment and medical procedures. In addition, Saudi Arabia sponsored a large number of Syrian families living in Lebanon and Syria (specifically, through paying for their rent and living costs).

The ministry official concluded by stating that: It is apparent from the previous facts, that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia will remain a leader among other countries supporting Syrian people and it is impossible to outbid its efforts in this matter, or to question its position in any way or form, the statement concluded.
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by Horus »

If any of that is true then they have been keeping it very quiet 8)
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

This missive came from their Foreign office to the Saudi Student Association here as apparently they've gotten a bit of flack about their country not helping the refugees and all the tents for Haj set up then more attention to that when the crane fell over in a wind storm and killed over 100 workers. ........(as told to me by the Students)
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by Horus »

That makes sense, it sounds like something for internal consumption by people such as students, rather than on an international basis which could be challenged.
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by Mad Dilys »

The International Business Times had an article two days ago:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/refugee-crisis ... ns-1519532
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by Horus »

As I said, it would be more credible if this came from other sources. If we in the UK were to offer the same reasons and just say "Oh we have taken in a million refugees, but we dont process them in any way we just let them mingle in and be absorbed into our society with all the priveledges of a normal citizen" would we be believed? I doubt it.
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by Mad Dilys »

I've started to read the Washington Post, seems less hysterical than most newspapers.

A lot of people have a deeply held point of view and only choose to agree with anything that expresses that deeply held belief.

Few people these days have an open mind, being more interested in talking than listening.
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by Horus »

A lot of people have a deeply held point of view and only choose to agree with anything that expresses that deeply held belief.

Few people these days have an open mind, being more interested in talking than listening.
I agree and that applies to both sides of the immigration argument, we are spoon fed misery and hardship by those who support this mass exodus from Syria, but of course that is to support their own jaundiced view of the situation, any other opinion is dismissed as being unsympathetic or racist. I still fail to see why we as Europeans are supposed to just accept this mass migration of what are essentially economic migrants into our countries, we are as we speak reaping the problems of past immigration policies that have allowed alien customs and cultures to impose upon our own. If as often reported, these ‘mainly’ young and fit young men are indeed fleeing Syria because they fear for their lives, then they are equally capable of taking up arms and fighting these insurgents that are threatening their homes and families, or do they as usual expect the West to do it for them? again damned if we do and damned if we don't. All over the Islamic world there are wars and conflicts raging and what is at the root of most of them? The answer is religion, an often backward and perverted version of one mans doctrines, so how will that change when they all flee to somewhere else? All that they do is to bring their feuds with them and that transfers their internal conflicts onto our shoulders. All of this mass and uncontrolled migration is just storing up future problems, the answer lies with the Arab and Islamic world to put an end to the conflict in Syria and elsewhere in the region, after all it is their own backyard. 8)
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

This fellow makes an absolutely excellent point and it is a point I hope all politicians would adopt.

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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by Horus »

Never have I seen the current situation summed up better, this should be compulsive viewing for all our politicians :up
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Never ever ever ever does REMOVING anybody from a situation improve it. If the problem isn't FIXED there at source it definitely isn't going to be fixed by moving all the people out of Syria somewhere else.
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by Horus »

I have finally given up on any notion that these so called refugees are indeed that. The pictures being shown on the news coverage of the clashes with the security forces on the Hungarian/Serbian border says it all, they are just an invading mob who are intent upon getting to their preferred destination regardless of any countries asylum rules. The majority once again are young men and they can be seen chanting Alah Akbar and other annoying phrases which must if anything harden the attitudes of people towards them. I can only say that if this is a sample of the type of people we are supposed to allow in then heaven help us. If you were to show this footage and tell people it was rioters and looters in a major city somewhere else in the world then you would believe it, they are like a mob besieging a building, throwing stones and other objects over onto the police. After seeing the way these people are prepared to behave and to flaunt any countries laws then I am afraid that I applaud the stance that Hungary has taken and a more robust action including the military is needed to put a stop to this mayhem, if these were to be citizens of a neighbouring country behaving in this way it would be deemed to be an hostile incursion into ones sovereign territory and the troops would be called out to repel it, what is so different about this? The claim that all these people are refugees is wearing very thin and the fact that they are not is being demonstrated every day by their own actions.
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Quite agree. I see that Hungary has now arrested something like 500 and rightly so if these "MEN" are acting the way I'm seeing on the News. They definitely do not seem to be able to control themselves at all and if this presentation is any indication of how they're going to act once they are actually IN the country does not bode well for anybody. This is basically an invading army.

I do believe there are REAL refugees and I so feel very badly for them but by and large the 'real' refugees are being quite overshadowed by these angry masses.
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by Horus »

The REAL refugees are still in the Middle East and those are the ones we should be helping and giving refugee status to, not this invading rabble who respect no laws but their own.
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by Kiya »

Saw the news tonight, the first in a few days & have to say on their behaviour.........shocking!!!! & they expect to be allowed in other countries :stp if it was up to me I'd kick the whole lot back to where they come from.
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Re: Germany and the Immigrants

Post by Horus »

Quite agree Kiya and of course we will get the old excuse of “that’s because they are desperate” what a load of rubbish, it because they are violent people who are determined to get their own way at any cost. They respect no boundaries and insist upon acting as they please whilst dismissing and ignoring all the systems that have been put in place to assist genuine refugees. They take it as a right that we must accept them, well we do not, but if we do we do so it should be on our own terms and not on someone else’s the more of this behaviour I am seeing the less sympathy I have for them. Are we really to accept that this sort of demanding behaviour will cease once they reach their desired destination? If they behave like this while seeking our help what should we expect once they are actually living amongst us, the phrase ‘biting the hand that feeds you’ springs to mind. More importantly their unwanted invasion of Europe could in itself have serious consequences, already we have seen diplomatic spats between Hungary, Serbia and Croatia, a volatile region at the best of times. If we are not careful this mass invasion could spark off real conflicts in the region between neighbouring countries, it is already causing dissent within Europe. They managed to ruin their own country with religious infighting and tribal factions and now they will bring it to our doorstep if we do not act now. :stp
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