WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Egypt has both Christian and Moslem communities and the politics of the Middle East are equally diverse. Air your views on the situation.

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WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by Grandad »

I have only been to Turkey once and that was to Istanbul a few years ago. A wonderful city steeped in history and very westonised.

Of late I am beginning to view Turkey with some uncertainty. Just last week in a TV discussion, one of the learned contibutors suggested that there are undertones of moves towards a stricter Islamic State from its current relaxed western ways.

Turkey has just completed an exchange of 180 IS fighters, held prisoner, for 49 Turkish and Iraqi embassy staff taken captive from the Turkish Embassy in Mosul several months ago. Last Thursday the Turkish government passed a motion overwhelmingly to join the US led coalition against IS.

But IS and Turkey are Sunni and I have heard suggestions that Turkeys intentions in joining the coalition may not only be about the IS but also the Kurdish PKK which is also classed as a terrorist organisation bent on establishing a Kurdish state.

The Kurdish Peshmerga fighting the IS in Iraq is being supported and armed by the US and the West. More reports suggest that some of these military supplies are finding their way into the hands of the PKK.

As I see it this is an increasingly complicated situation and Turkeys intentions may not be all that they appear.

So, my original question: Is it conceivable or probable that Turkey could be off the tourist route in the near future????


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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by Horus »

Could well be Grandad, the present government do seem to be leaning towards a stricter Islamic state although this is being opposed quite strongly from most of the population who see it as a step backwards. I also find Turkeys membership of the UN and the half hearted support a bit bemusing and as you say they seem to be doing very little to assist in wiping out this IS threat. One thing that I am totally opposed to is their membership of the EU, that is all we need, a few million more Muslims wanting to sponge off us plus all of the uncontrolled crossing of borders to work in other EU countries, we would have to be mental to agree to such an expansion.
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Ohhhhhhh Grandad - the "title" of this thread caused me a jolt then a good belly laugh!! :))) :))) Since we're coming up to the Canadian Thanksgiving HOLIDAY and since turkeys (the bird we traditionally eat at this holiday) have been on sale here and since I bought 2 (Thanksgiving & Christmas) this past weekend and on reading your title I had a "whew" moment (that I'd purchased two birds) and a curious 'wonder why turkeys are going to be scarce?' with my mind running immediately to all sorts of Turkey Rights Groups now trying to protect turkeys from being eaten on holidays!! :))) :))) :))) Had a totally different take on "TURKEY" from your thread...........BUT now that I've read your TURKEY concerns...... ;) ;)

I really think holiday travel to anywhere in the entire West & northern Africa & Middle East is probably off the table right now. Just doesn't seem prudent to take the risk to go to the area. Have never been to Turkey but it was a country I did have plans to go to at some point. They have always seemed more relaxed but given the political climate nowadays it is hard to know what the locals are thinking, what attitudes have been stirred up etc. I think it would be very fool hardy to allow Turkey into the EU with open travel and work as, am sure this would cause a flood of people seeking services and handouts. Just doesn't seem prudent to open that gate at this time.
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by Grandad »

@LLL :))) :))) :)))
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

I really thought for a sec there Grandad you were coming up with a new recipe or dinner plan for the holidays! :)))
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Seems the US has sent envoys to talk to Turkey re: helping out. Apparently Turkey wants to fight ISIS but also wants to fight Assad and has "conditions" before they join in.

ISIS is close to capturing Kobani which means ISIS will have 3 points of contact with Turkey. Doesn't sound good.

Maybe I'm just having a doom and gloom day but honestly I can see 'us' in the west being attacked in the near future by these crazies. I can see us being individually targeted by isolated cells which will make it nearly impossible to fight back against. I think we're way to slow in responding to the threat of fanatical Islam and if we don't get it together real soon we're really going to lose lots more than we ever bargained for.
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by A-four »

As I have written in the past on the 'sister' forum the whole of the Middle East could quite easily become a total 'back water' very soon, the need for oil in the West becomes less by the day, it seems, we only have to look at the present levels of the price of oil.

The difficulty now arises, as Grandad points out is Turkey, the U.S. and the U.K. Have made it quite clear that there will be NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND. However we now have a problem, there is a threat to Turkey by ISIS, who will certainly antagonise the situation with the full support of the local border people known as the Kurds.

We should also remember that should ISIS 'invade' Turkey, then as a full member of N.A.T.O., it will be requested and REQUIRED that this whole organisation MUST throw its FULL support behind a fellow member,.......................and that will mean boots on the ground.

I must admit, for the first time in my life, I am a little afraid about being in Egypt within the next few weeks
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Turkey is walking a fine line and am sure they have their strategy in place.

I can say, cause I am in the USA right now that the price of gas is down by almost $1/gallon from what it was and everybody here is breathing a huge "whew" of relief that it is not continuing to go up.........however........ the DOW & stock market is acting up (actually crashing down hence acting up? :tk ) which is based on concerns out of Europe.

I'd love to see us all get off the need for Middle East Oil and I wish too we'd stop selling to China and kick back to ourselves.

ISIS is going to continue to push. I'm more worried about all the lone wolf wannabes joining in to wreak havoc on innocent people who just happen to be in the vicinity when they decide to self mobilize themselves. I saw something on the News this morning on the Net about Canada uncovering a plot but I don't have any other details as, for sure, I don't get Canadian News here in the good old US of A.
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by Grandad »

We also had a cell broken up here LLL just a few days ago. Don't know all the details but apparently they were ISIS sympathisers that the inteligence agencies and police had under surveillance.

I remember saying just recently that this sort of small cell network could be growing anywhere in the world and with a given order could come to the surface and cause havoc.

And I agree about Egypt A4. Could easily become another hot spot.
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by A-four »

In the past week the main supermarkets in the U.K. have reduced the petrol price by 5p a litre, which is un-thinkable, very little publicity, being that the government usually take the credit for any reduction.

I have quite good contacts in the oil industry, and I can tell you that fracking is already very quietly taking place in a lot of places in Britain, even on the beautiful Sussex Downs, and special payments are to be made to local residents should drilling be successful in any of the areas. There have been NO protests.

It really is funny when you think that these so called e-cigarettes, where we now find that the major cigarette manufacturers like BAT ( British and American Tobacco ) have bought out most of these such manufactures. I accept that these new things do not contain tar etc, but they do contain the highly addictive nicotine. We learn today that not only will these items be advertised on bill-boards, but also be advertised on T.V. Adverts in the U.K.

What I am trying to say here is what we see with what is going on with ISIS, who as we know are ruthless, and are little different from many other terrorist organisations in the past, but at the same time we should remember that one mans terrorists are another mans freedom fighters.

It is only when we really study the social history of the Middle East over the past 100 years can any one really realise why this whole area is the absolute mess that we see today.
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by Grandad »

And it seems that some tribal leaders in Iraq who were sympathetic to the ISIS cause are now changing their allegiance to the Iraqi Government. So how can you know who your friends are when opinions can change so quickly?

Turkey still keeps to its side of the border with Syria especially as the Kurds are having some success in Kobane with air support, to push back the IS fighters. Turkey is really on the edge both in terms of the risk of IS crossing their border and their differences with the Kurds. I wouldn't want to be around there just now. :(
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

This is a bit of an aside but one thing that does seem to hold true is that whomever ends up ruling in the Middle East is typically ruthless and doesn't worry about sparing the sword. I don't want to say blood thirsty as I don't believe the leader there lust for blood however they don't give it a second thought if they spill it. AND it seems that the more ruthless they are the stronger their followings.

Us on the other hand seem to fall prey to PC police and can't even openly express a thought, let alone take action, lest it 'might' or 'could' possibly probably maybe likely offend somebody somewhere.
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by A-four »

Grandad wrote:And it seems that some tribal leaders in Iraq who were sympathetic to the ISIS cause are now changing their allegiance to the Iraqi Government. So how can you know who your friends are when opinions can change so quickly?

Turkey still keeps to its side of the border with Syria especially as the Kurds are having some success in Kobane with air support, to push back the IS fighters. Turkey is really on the edge both in terms of the risk of IS crossing their border and their differences with the Kurds. I wouldn't want to be around there just now. :(

But also to add to this problem in Turkey, is that in Northern Iraq is a very important tomb of the Ottoman era of Turkey that it is believed to be a direct descendent of the prophet Muhammad, and therefore one of the most holiest places in Islam, ISIS has threatened to blow it to pieces,............just one of the many things we are not hearing about here in the West.
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by A-four »

LovelyLadyLux wrote:This is a bit of an aside but one thing that does seem to hold true is that whomever ends up ruling in the Middle East is typically ruthless and doesn't worry about sparing the sword. I don't want to say blood thirsty as I don't believe the leader there lust for blood however they don't give it a second thought if they spill it. AND it seems that the more ruthless they are the stronger their followings.

Us on the other hand seem to fall prey to PC police and can't even openly express a thought, let alone take action, lest it 'might' or 'could' possibly probably maybe likely offend somebody somewhere.

As you write here LLL, this is so true of the past, believe me some of the present rulers of the Arab World are descended from mear Sheikhs who's only wealth were the water holes and Oasis in the desert of the past, and Oh boy, were they ruthless.
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

One of the big differences I see between the Dictatorial leaders in the Middle East and our leaders is that those in the Middle East believe, have a cause and are driven. They are ruling as Leaders with a mission and failure is not an option. They lead 24/7. It is their destiny to succeed.

No compare them to President O who might between sips of his latte, rubbing elbows with whichever star from Hollywood he is presently hanging with and if he can fit it in between rounds on the golf course "MIGHT" make a speech about something or the other however IF you happen to listen to his speeches you'll find that he contradicts himself and probably has previously said something completely opposite. He hardly appears interested in leading, doesn't listen to his aides and advisors really is only motivated to fund raise, take lavish holidays on tax payer money and fervently hope ISIS goes away so he doesn't have to deal with them. I know I'm highly critical of Pres O but he doesn't rank high in my books at all. Course I'm not overly impressed with Harper (Canadian PM) or Cameron however looking at our leaders and compare them with the "men with a mission" and our leaders are namby pamby airy fairy and honestly are not making the difficult decisions they were elected to make so as to protect OUR health and safety.

I don't see our leaders as acting like men on a mission exhibiting strong leadership characteristics who are going to confront an enemy and succeed. Me thinks we need a Ronnie Regan, Stormin' Norman or Gen Patton to take charge. Even Margaret T had more gumption than the leaders we have in office today.
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by Grandad »

The difference between Democracy and Autocracy :?:
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

A benevolent Dictatorship seems the most ideal ;) however leaders in the past in the west seemed more passionate, more involved, more wanting to lead. They were people who were driven with passion albeit democratic. Now we seem to have more namby pambies or wimps who run on a 9-5 schedule and are fearful of rockin' the boat and make decisions based on what they want their legacy to look like meaning they avoid the hard decisions.

Makes me wonder how our leaders who don't appear driven can fight up against the likes of those in IS?
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by A-four »

Strange it may sound but, tonight on the BBC six o'clock news here in the U.K. they inform us that Brent Crude oil has dropped to its lowest level in yonks, being $88 a barrel, of course they blame the present economical climate here in Europe, though, I must add here that they informed us that the U.S. produced record amounts of this substance in its own back yard, strange though, they gave little detail.

I think we on here heard this 'news' yesterday on here.
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Re: WILL TURKEY SOON BE OFF THE HOLIDAY LIST?

Post by LovelyLadyLux »

Gas prices here in the Pacific Northwest section of the USA are the cheapest they've been in a long time.......$2.99/gallon USD to fill up my car. Just a few months ago it was in the neighborhood of $3.70+/gallon USD.

Canada it was $1.29/litre when I left which is a little bit down from 1.35/litre a month ago. Our gas prices really don't fluctuate that much.

One of my Saudi students told me, when we were comparing prices a few days ago that regular gas is about .11 cents there. Unfortunately I didn't get if that was per litre or per gallon but ELEVEN pennies for either would be terrifically appreciated by me! :) :) :)
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