World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
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World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
A World War II RAF fighter, which crash-landed in a remote part of the Egyptian desert in 1942, has been discovered almost intact.
The pilot appears to have crash-landed
the plane and then walked off into the desert
There was no trace of the pilot, Flt Sgt Dennis Copping, but the British embassy says it is planning to mount a search for his remains.
The RAF Museum in Hendon, north London, says it is hoping to recover the plane as soon as possible.
There are fears souvenir hunters will start stripping it.
The 24-year-old pilot, the son of a dentist from Southend in Essex, went missing over the Western Desert in June 1942, flying an American-made P40 Kittyhawk single-engine fighter.
Two-and-a-half months ago an aircraft believed to be his was discovered near a remote place called Wadi al-Jadid by a Polish oil worker, Jakub Perka.
His photographs show the plane is in remarkably good condition, though the engine and propeller have separated from the fuselage.
The original paintwork and RAF insignia are said to be clearly visible, almost perfectly preserved in the dry desert air.
But of the pilot there is no sign. He appears to have executed a near-perfect emergency landing, perhaps after becoming lost and running out of fuel, and to have survived the crash.
He rigged a parachute as an awning and removed the aircraft's radio and batteries but then apparently walked off into the desert in search of help.
Bleak prospects
Almost 100 miles from the nearest settlement, he stood virtually no chance.
David Keen, an aviation historian at the RAF Museum, says the pilot broke the first rule of survival in the desert, which is to stay with your plane or vehicle.
But the very same conditions which made the pilot's prospects so bleak have helped preserve the plane.
Mr Keen says of the many thousands of aircraft which were shot down or crashed during the Second World War, very few survive in anything like this condition.
He said: "Nearly all the crashes in the Second World War, and there were tens of thousands of them, resulted on impact with the aircraft breaking up, so the only bits that are recovered are fragments, often scattered over a wide area.
"What makes this particular aircraft so special is that it looks complete, and it survived on the surface of the desert all these years. It's like a timewarp."
The RAF Museum has a P40 Kittyhawk on display, but it has been put together from parts of many different aircraft.
Recovering Flt Sgt Copping's plane will not be easy.
Souvenir hunters
It is in a part of the desert which is not only remote but also dangerous, because it is close to a smuggling route between Libya and Egypt.
The defence attache at the British Embassy in Cairo, Paul Collins, says he is hoping to travel to the area in the near future, but is waiting for permission from the Egyptian army.
He told the BBC: "I have to go down there. This is a serviceman who was killed, albeit 70 years ago. We have a responsibility to go and find out whether it's his plane, though not necessarily to work out what happened.
"He went missing in action. We can only assume he got out and walked somewhere, so we have to do a search of the area for any remains, although it could be a wide area.
"But we have to go soon as all the souvenir hunters will be down there," said Mr Collins.
He said the British authorities are trying to find out whether Flt Sgt Copping has any surviving close relatives, because if his remains are found a decision will need to be made about what to do with them.
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18038650
The pilot appears to have crash-landed
the plane and then walked off into the desert
There was no trace of the pilot, Flt Sgt Dennis Copping, but the British embassy says it is planning to mount a search for his remains.
The RAF Museum in Hendon, north London, says it is hoping to recover the plane as soon as possible.
There are fears souvenir hunters will start stripping it.
The 24-year-old pilot, the son of a dentist from Southend in Essex, went missing over the Western Desert in June 1942, flying an American-made P40 Kittyhawk single-engine fighter.
Two-and-a-half months ago an aircraft believed to be his was discovered near a remote place called Wadi al-Jadid by a Polish oil worker, Jakub Perka.
His photographs show the plane is in remarkably good condition, though the engine and propeller have separated from the fuselage.
The original paintwork and RAF insignia are said to be clearly visible, almost perfectly preserved in the dry desert air.
But of the pilot there is no sign. He appears to have executed a near-perfect emergency landing, perhaps after becoming lost and running out of fuel, and to have survived the crash.
He rigged a parachute as an awning and removed the aircraft's radio and batteries but then apparently walked off into the desert in search of help.
Bleak prospects
Almost 100 miles from the nearest settlement, he stood virtually no chance.
David Keen, an aviation historian at the RAF Museum, says the pilot broke the first rule of survival in the desert, which is to stay with your plane or vehicle.
But the very same conditions which made the pilot's prospects so bleak have helped preserve the plane.
Mr Keen says of the many thousands of aircraft which were shot down or crashed during the Second World War, very few survive in anything like this condition.
He said: "Nearly all the crashes in the Second World War, and there were tens of thousands of them, resulted on impact with the aircraft breaking up, so the only bits that are recovered are fragments, often scattered over a wide area.
"What makes this particular aircraft so special is that it looks complete, and it survived on the surface of the desert all these years. It's like a timewarp."
The RAF Museum has a P40 Kittyhawk on display, but it has been put together from parts of many different aircraft.
Recovering Flt Sgt Copping's plane will not be easy.
Souvenir hunters
It is in a part of the desert which is not only remote but also dangerous, because it is close to a smuggling route between Libya and Egypt.
The defence attache at the British Embassy in Cairo, Paul Collins, says he is hoping to travel to the area in the near future, but is waiting for permission from the Egyptian army.
He told the BBC: "I have to go down there. This is a serviceman who was killed, albeit 70 years ago. We have a responsibility to go and find out whether it's his plane, though not necessarily to work out what happened.
"He went missing in action. We can only assume he got out and walked somewhere, so we have to do a search of the area for any remains, although it could be a wide area.
"But we have to go soon as all the souvenir hunters will be down there," said Mr Collins.
He said the British authorities are trying to find out whether Flt Sgt Copping has any surviving close relatives, because if his remains are found a decision will need to be made about what to do with them.
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18038650
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
I wondered when this week old news would filter through to Luxor.
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
OH!!! it was only on the BBC website from the 11th
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
Have you heard that France has a new president yet? or that Nasser has nationalised the Suez Canal? Next you'll be telling me that they have kicked Mubarak out! You must try reading something other than the Guardian.
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
Well it was interesting news to me! Nothing about that has filtered to me here and it would be really interesting new. The only thing more interesting will be when they 'find' the pilot camping out in a remote cave. Bet he is gonna be real upset it took 'em that long to find him.......
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
Well he did survive the crash landing as he had made a sun shelter from a parachute.
I bet the news has not yet reached sleepy Luxor about the 20 British Spitfire fighter planes that they have located in Burma. They are believed to be complete and were buried in kit form in packing crates shortly before the end of WW2. The Spitfires are now very rare and were designed by a local man from our area, his name was Reginald Mitchell, this aircraft was considered to be the best fighter plane of WW2. Many thousands were built but only a handful survive and even less can actually be flown, I am fortunate enough to have seen them fly overhead and to view one very close up.
I bet the news has not yet reached sleepy Luxor about the 20 British Spitfire fighter planes that they have located in Burma. They are believed to be complete and were buried in kit form in packing crates shortly before the end of WW2. The Spitfires are now very rare and were designed by a local man from our area, his name was Reginald Mitchell, this aircraft was considered to be the best fighter plane of WW2. Many thousands were built but only a handful survive and even less can actually be flown, I am fortunate enough to have seen them fly overhead and to view one very close up.
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
Worth sending a Chinook to go and pick it up IMO. Just too important to leave it for trophy hunters to rip apart......
I have vivid memories of Kittyhawks from the war years. There was a squadron based not too from where I lived and I remember going to their airfield with a pal and his father who was delivering a few ton of aggregate in his lorry. The ones I saw were painted with sharks teeth below the engine housing........at about 9 years of age I was, regrettably, not yet into picture taking
I have vivid memories of Kittyhawks from the war years. There was a squadron based not too from where I lived and I remember going to their airfield with a pal and his father who was delivering a few ton of aggregate in his lorry. The ones I saw were painted with sharks teeth below the engine housing........at about 9 years of age I was, regrettably, not yet into picture taking
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
I 'think maybe' I saw one once at an airshow but now wouldn't want to swear by it. To me it did all sorts of fancy flying tricks, deeks and dodges leaving me impressed but totally unknowledgeable about aircraft. I hope they're able to recover this and I concur with Grandad that sending in something big to snatch it up before the treasure seekers rip it to pieces.
This is maybe a silly or naive question but how come not too many survive today?
This is maybe a silly or naive question but how come not too many survive today?
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
Any survivors would have been scrapped after hostilities ended. There were some big scrap merchants that grew up immediately after the war, breaking up obsolete military hardware. Any aircraft that ditched or crashed on land would have just deteriorated. This one is special because the pilot did a very good crash landing and the low desert humidity has kept it in pretty good order.LovelyLadyLux wrote: This is maybe a silly or naive question but how come not too many survive today?
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
As a PS, there were recent reports that around 24 Spitfires (or Hurricanes) were burried in Burma towards the end of the war to prevent them coming into enemy hands. It is reported that they were burried in a preserved state and if they can be found may well significantly increase the number of such aircraft still serviceable. (After a little restoration, no doubt )
I would check that out right now but I have 800+ photos to go through
I would check that out right now but I have 800+ photos to go through
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
Ahhhhhhh - hadn't really thought about all the businesses in scrap metal that would have sparked up after the war. I was thinking only that not ALL of them would have been crashed, smashed or ended the war in tiny pieces but I can see it if they're was a good price for metal being offered.
I like pictures of the old planes with the sharks teeth painted on them.
I live close to a couple big American military bases here. I don't see it often but what really raises the goose bumps on me is when I see groups of helicopters all out there flying in formation. This is not a sight I see often as usually it is only one or two at any time but sometimes I get a chance to see lots flying at the same time.
We also have the Boeing plant about 40 miles from where I live and they have a big Museum of Flight. Have never gone there but it is a bucket list thing to do.
I like pictures of the old planes with the sharks teeth painted on them.
I live close to a couple big American military bases here. I don't see it often but what really raises the goose bumps on me is when I see groups of helicopters all out there flying in formation. This is not a sight I see often as usually it is only one or two at any time but sometimes I get a chance to see lots flying at the same time.
We also have the Boeing plant about 40 miles from where I live and they have a big Museum of Flight. Have never gone there but it is a bucket list thing to do.
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
Grandad, I have mentioned the Spitfires a couple of posts above yours
Once hostilities have ended there is usually little use for most military equipment, I do remember seeing a few ex tanks with their turrets removed and fitted with tractor dozer blades being used when I was a kid. A good example is in todays newspapers when it is reported that the UK will leave over 1 billion pounds worth of vehicular equipment in Iraq when we leave.
Once hostilities have ended there is usually little use for most military equipment, I do remember seeing a few ex tanks with their turrets removed and fitted with tractor dozer blades being used when I was a kid. A good example is in todays newspapers when it is reported that the UK will leave over 1 billion pounds worth of vehicular equipment in Iraq when we leave.
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
That sure is one awful lot of 'debris' putting it mildly. Combined with what the USA is probably leaving behind too is enough 'metal' waste (to say nothing of chemical and other waste) to cause a major problem. Talk about recycling!
I never much before thought about what happens to old military planes, vehicles once the war is over. I'm not really sure what I ever thought did happen to all this stuff.
I do think this plane that has just been discovered should be recovered. Terrific piece of history there.
I never much before thought about what happens to old military planes, vehicles once the war is over. I'm not really sure what I ever thought did happen to all this stuff.
I do think this plane that has just been discovered should be recovered. Terrific piece of history there.
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
That sure is one awful lot of 'debris' putting it mildly. Combined with what the USA is probably leaving behind too is enough 'metal' waste (to say nothing of chemical and other waste) to cause a major problem. Talk about recycling!
I never much before thought about what happens to old military planes, vehicles once the war is over. I'm not really sure what I ever thought did happen to all this stuff.
I do think this plane that has just been discovered should be recovered. Terrific piece of history there.
I never much before thought about what happens to old military planes, vehicles once the war is over. I'm not really sure what I ever thought did happen to all this stuff.
I do think this plane that has just been discovered should be recovered. Terrific piece of history there.
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
We leave it all behind so that they have got lots of equipment to use against us in some way in the future.
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
Sorry H, been away a week and SO much to catch up on I am not reading all missed postsHorus wrote:Grandad, I have mentioned the Spitfires a couple of posts above yours
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
No problems, you get on with editing all those new pictures
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Re: World War II fighter found in Egyptian desert
I second that - can't wait to see the new photos.
On another note - thinking back to the pilot of the downed plane - what an awful way to go - crashed, possibly serverely hurt and alone in a strange land with no way to call for help. Sad. Worse for the family who never found out what really happened to their loved one either.
On another note - thinking back to the pilot of the downed plane - what an awful way to go - crashed, possibly serverely hurt and alone in a strange land with no way to call for help. Sad. Worse for the family who never found out what really happened to their loved one either.
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