TUTORIAL DISCUSSIONS

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Horus
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Post by Horus »

OK, as I said before I do not have that version so cannot comment beyond what I have said above. I must say that I find it a bit strange that the pictures completely cover each other up and can only be seen if you minimise the window to view the one below :?:

Normally all Windows programmes follow the same protocol and that is to show the active window with a blue bar at the top. The only time you would not see a blue bar and the windows would cover each other is if the windows were being viewed in maximum size windows. Again a silly question, but I assume that you are both clicking on the small double square icon at the top right of the window to make them display in the reduced size?

All windows applications normally display in three states:
Full Window, A re-sized Window and a Minimised Window, like this:
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Do you not have this kind of display? by the way that bloody great Scarab is covering up the word 'Close' :roll:


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Post by Kiya »

Thanks for the help guys, I'm doing the excercise in PS CSR as in doing the stained glass windows previously.
But I still couldn't see the blue top then when I minimised it the pic & layers pallet showed, following instructions I get as far as drawing the solid line around the outside frame of the leaded layer but then I cannot get it to show a solid line when drawing the OVAL SHAPES ( just faded ones ) but I do get the staright lines that follow instructions after.

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Post by Grandad »

Yes Horus we do have that display. The only difficulty was that the two open windows completely covered each other. It often happens to me if I open many pictures at once so it did not cause me a problem .

Perhaps Kiya has not come across it before and did not know how to access windows behind the front one. Although I said minimise, I meant the middle 'reduce' button but it doesn't really matter because you can always retrieve the window from the project bin if you minimise with the left minus (-) button.

The other thing was that the tops do not change to blue, in PSE7, when you make them active in the workspace.

Kiya said
I cannot get it to show a solid line when drawing the OVAL SHAPES ( just faded ones )
PS: Just seen your post Kiya. I had the same problem but found that if I set the Mode to Darken in the Stroke Selection settings it made the line solid.
:gg:

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Post by Horus »

Just a couple of things :)
First off to Grandad, when you have the smaller windows option clicked, can you not make each one smaller by dragging them in from one of the corners? I am still baffled by the fact that you cannot see more than one picture window at a time on your monitor?

As to the blue colour at the top, well I suppose that is a perculiarity of the particular programme you are using, but strange that it does not show you which is the 'active' window in some way.

To Kiya, after you have drawn the oval shape, are you then using the EDIT then STROKE option to open the menu that allows you to turn the 'Marching Ants' into a solid line?
If so can you post me a picture of the 'menu' that opens after you select EDIT then STROKE?
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Post by Grandad »

First off to Grandad, when you have the smaller windows option clicked, can you not make each one smaller by dragging them in from one of the corners?
Horus I can do all those things and have never had a problem that I couldn't resolve. Kiya was baffled for a while but I think she is now OK.

Digressing somewhat, I tried to follow the tutorial but using PSP x2 to see how it compared with Photoshop. Didn't get very far and wonder if you know what I am missing. :?:

All the menus are different of course but most functions are there, somewhere..... I only got to the point where I wanted to create the first ellipse. I got the marching ants but searched all the menus for something like 'Stroke' to no avail. I can draw lines etc but could not fill the selected ellipse outline with colour. Any suggestions please????
:gg:

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Post by Horus »

Well Grandad without getting into too much detail, it can be done, :) as you can see in this picture after I had a quick try out for you.

View large to see leaded detail
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Basically you need to use the Ellipse tool, select and delete the backgrounds to leave the shape your after, then do a bit of merging down to create the complete lead outline Layer. It is more difficult to get a good lead effect in PSP, so this is as good as I got without spending a lot of time on it. The glass was more difficult and I finished up using various effects combined to give me something passable.

Bottom line is that I prefer to use Photoshop for this type of manipulation and I don't think you will come close using PSP as it lacks some of the features. I am not saying it can't be done, but just doing the Tutorials takes up a lot of time and unfortunately I just don't have the spare time to explore this exercise in PSP, but you may have some fun trying to do it. :)
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Post by Grandad »

Thanks for that Horus. I just tried it in case anyone else only has PSP and I wanted to see if the commands were similar.

I DO agree that Photoshop is the more powerful program, even in its reduced Elements version.

Cheers :)
:gg:

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Post by Grandad »

I must get a life :lol:

Spent all afternoon watching the Commons Select Committees grilling the Police chiefs and News Corp Execs over all the phone tapping stuff etc. I thought Rebekah Brook came out best.....a real cool cookie :)

And just now I couldn't resist doing Horus's latest variation on the Iris window. This is how mine came out.
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If I can just make an observation H. Would it be possible to number your paragraphs in future so that we can more easily pin point any areas of comment or difficulty?

PSE7 works slightly different in some areas to the full version of Photoshop. I found this in para's 8 and 11 where Hue and Saturation are found under Enhance>Adjust Colour>Adjust Hue and Saturation.

Didn't try the multi colour thing.....I could see that would involve lots of layers.

PS. I have applied an Emboss above but in PSE7 you do not have adjustment facilities, just a range of different levels to choose from. It is still an improvement on my original effort...I think.
:) :lol:
:gg:

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Post by Horus »

That looks pretty good Grandad :) I am sure you will agree with me that the glass effect looks a lot better using this method.

Numering the paragraphs would have been a bit difficult Grandad as often the instructions are in single lines and build upon the previous instruction, so not really paragraphs as such.

The best thing is just to copy and paste the relevant bit of text into your query, so long as people don't go copying the whole thing it won't be a problem. It also helps me to read just the bit you are asking about ,rather than me having to read it all over again myself to see which part you are asking me about.

However, should I do any more at a future date, I will try to incorporate some form of reference points. :)
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Post by Kiya »

My 1st day in a while of trying the Practice but still no further ahead!!! I'm getting so annoyed with myself after following all other Tutorials with ease.
OK I got as far as renaming the Layers> IRIS>LEADED>GLASS which leaves me with the GLASS layer highlighted
1847

Following instructions opening the orignal IRIS PIC I see the 2 & blue tops when using the middle button top right of screen REDUCE DOWN, clicking on IRIS pic my renamed layers appear but the GLASS 1 HIGHLIGHTED.
1848

I changed to LEADED layer HIGHLIGHTED & continue with the ELIPTICAL MARQUE tool but it faded in the 1st 1, I continue with the 2nd & 3rd circles, they are faded also but I noticed doing 2nd & 3rd the 1st was getting darker each time
1849
1850

I've tried so many times in the EDIT>STROKE box to no avail!!!

Where am I going wrong ???????

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Post by Horus »

Kiya, a couple of things to sort out, first of all, get rid of that empty layer at the top called IRIS you dont need it.

I made a bit of an error in the tutorial and I did correct it later when Grandad asked me a question, but you must have missed it. ;)

You only need the following:
1. The original Layer (that you switch off after)
2. A copy of the original Layer (that you re-name Leaded)
3. Another copy of the original Layer (that you re-name Glass)

Now open up your IRIS picture and copy it in the way I describe.

Now click back onto your Stained Glass picture and make sure that your LEADED Layer (the top one) is the one that is highlighted.

Only now do you go to EDIT > PASTE and the (copied) IRIS picture should be sitting at the TOP of your Layers Pallet, so you should now see four (4) layers:
Number 1 = IRIS (when you rename it)
Number 2 = LEADED
Number 3 = GLASS
Number 4 = BACKGROUND (switched off)

Now that should take care of the first part of your problem. :)

Now as to the problem with your CIRCLES & ELLIPSES, I cannot be certain here as you are using a different version, but check any or all of the following:

Make sure that before you make your shape, that the brush you have chosen is a HARD one and not a SOFT edge, also that OPACITY & FLOW are both set to be 100%.

Next, I do not know what options you have in your STROKE menu, but make sure that a pixel size is entered in the 'Pixel Size' box, that you set the colour as BLACK, Use the 'Blending Mode' of NORMAL and the OPACITY is set at 100%

Always DE-SELECT after each separate shape has been made.

Try this and see how you go on, sometimes it is better to just start over again completely fresh. ;)
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Post by Kiya »

OK thanks, will print it out & shall try tomorrow aftn hopefully.
Been in a bit of an upheaval for more than a week decorating & having carpets laid tomorrow morning so hopefully get some me time for a while :roll:

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Post by Kiya »

Iris Excercise: H followed your instructions perfectly but, still have a problem when doing the Oval & Circles, I tried everything & checked over & over again but, still have the faded lines. :x so continued anyway to see how it came out.

In the Edit>Stroke box should there be a " tick " or not in the Transparency box ?? & what should "Location Is:>> Inside> Centre> or Outside ??.............I tried changing many times to know avail :cry:

When doing the colours in the small arc shapes I had to use the "Quick Selection " tool instead of the " Magic Wand " which would only put marching ants around all shapes, also when doing the side semi circles had to use the " Magic Wand " one at a time in each shape & working between " Leaded Layer " & " Glass Layer " Eye dropper " & " Paint Bucket " got there in the end.

It looks good apart from the 1 problem :roll:

1861

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Post by Bearded Brian »

I like it K - well done

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Post by Horus »

What a shame it didn't work out exactly for you Kiya, :( but I agree with Brian it still looks nice. :)

I can only assume that there is something slightly different about your programme, but exactly what I cannot say as I don't have that version to mess around with. :(

As to the other questions:

1. There should NOT be a tick in the Transparency box.

2. "What does Location Is:>> Inside> Centre> or Outside mean?"
All that this means is that it will put your solid line on either the 'Inside' or the 'Outside' of your Marching Ants depending on the option you choose. So if your line was say 10 pixels wide it would put then all inside or outside of your dotted line, but if you choose Centre, it would put 5 pixels on each side of your line.

EDIT: Kiya I have just had a play around to see if I could duplicate your problem and I want you to look and see if when you open up your ELLIPSE Marquee tool, do you see another menu bar at the bottom of your screen that allows you to change settings?

If you do, then check that the option for STYLE is set to NORMAL and most importantly, if you have a FEATHER option, set the PIxels at 0 (zero)

I am fairly certain that this is what is wrong, but if a circle or ellipse has already been drawn using the Marquee tool with a number entered in this FEATHER box it will never become a solid line, it will always have a blurred edge, so you will have to delete any such shapes you have made previously and do them again.

Hope this works for you. :)
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Post by Kiya »

Thanks Horus , yes it is a shame after all my time trying to fix it, I'm sure it must be something simple, something I've maybe clicked on that I shouldn't have :roll: I remember it worked perfectly when we did the practice shapes.

Will follow your suggestions & try again, I'm not that easy to give up ;)

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Post by Horus »

As I said Kiya, check that the FEATHER box does not have any size other than zero entered in it. :)

Why not open up a new drawing, say 600 x 600 and just try doing an ellipses or circle on it, but make sure that the options about FEATHER are set as I have said, then using the STROKE menu, see if it works out OK this time, if it does you will know where you are going wrong. ;)
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Post by Kiya »

Yeah!! Done now...phew!! the first time I did it this aftn I went straight to the end when I noticed the middle leaded line right through across the top of the flower.......crikey! back I go & here is the final result.

Your absolutely right Horus... there was a number in the " feather box " which I found at the top of my screen.......what would we do without you Mr. Tutor ;)

1863

I shall try the ALTERNATIVE METHOD for the GLASS EFFECTS tomorrow.

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Post by Kiya »

Forgot to ask should there have been some leaded lines connecting the flower to the oval shape ??

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Post by Horus »

:br: absolutely brilliant Kiya, very well done for persevering and completing the task, I knew we would get there in the end. ;)

There were no lead lines linking the flower in the tutorial, but that’s not to say that some would not look good, why don’t you add a few and see how it looks. As I have said before, these tutorials are only to get you going, once you have grasped the concept then branch out and try things for yourselves.
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