Does anyone use Photoshop Elements 7?

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Horus
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Post by Horus »

Sorry I misunderstood which program you were using, but at least Kiya has confirmed what I was saying at the start, that in Photoshop your selection is saved as a 'Channel' :)


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Post by Kiya »

Horus am I understanding you right? when I saved the Selection as a PSD file or any other kind apart from jpeg that is a "channel" theres no where in PSE7 that I can see relating to "channel"
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Post by Grandad »

There is no mention of 'channels' in PSE7.
:gg:
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Post by Horus »

Not quite Kiya, when you save any picture, it is usually in a format that can be read by many other applications using file extensions such as Bmp, Jpeg, Tiff, Giff and many more. When you save a file in programs such as Photoshop or Paint shop Pro they use their own unique file system such as PSD files for Photoshop & PSP files for Paint Shop Pro. However each of the above applications can also save your finished picture in many different file types including their own unique one of PSD or PSP files.

If you saved it as say a Jpeg file, then that is it, all your data is saved as the finished picture and that is what you are working with, but if saved as PSD then all the data for the file is still there for the program to use and you can continue to manipulate the picture and make further changes.

If you had the full version of Photoshop you would be able to see that your picture is composed of colour channels and if you clicked the ‘Channel’ tab these would be visible as separate colour channels of, RGB, Red, Green & Blue. (stacked very similar to layers)

When you make and save a ‘Selection’ in Photoshop, it is automatically saved as an Alpha channel and will appear at the bottom of the list under the channels tab, so if you had called it ‘Petals’ then after you saved your selection your channels list would now be RGB, Red, Green, Blue & Petals.

You have to remember that many ‘cut down’ versions of full programs will often perform some tasks without you having full control over the actual operation, they may for example have just a single click button that allows you to turn your picture into a negative image, but the full version may give you access to ‘Curves’ that allows you to make more selective and more varied changes. Often the cut down versions contain all the features, but have some of them disabled or reduced to single button operation with limited choices.

So what I call a channel may not feature in the instructions because it is not an option for you, however it will still be there in the program even if you cannot see it, maybe the following pictures will help to make it clearer for you.

This is using a full version of Photoshop 7

On your main screen and before loading a picture, this menu box would be visible.
Notice the tabs for Layers, Channels and Paths, but that nothing is showing in the box below.
If I clicked any of the other tabs, nothing would show in any of those also.
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I now load the following picture
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The Layer, Channel & Paths menu will now show a thumbnail of the main picture, like this.
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And if we now select the Channels tab, it will look like this, showing the RGB (full colour) the Red, the Green and the Blue colour channels that make up the picture. If you switch off any of the Red, Green or Blue channels your picture will change colour with some interesting results.
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Now if we select a few petals and save the selection, we will get the following dialogue box in which we enter the name ‘Petals’ Notice that it is being saved as a ‘New Channel’
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Now if we go back and look under the ‘Channel’ tab we can see that the selection ‘Petals’ has been added.
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Hopefully Kiya & Grandad this will explain why I refer to the selection being saved as a ‘Channel’ but even though it does not refer to them as such, it does not say they are not there within the program, its just that you don't have access to them ;)
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Post by Kiya »

Horus Thank you for this explanations , it makes more sense now that I can see what your doing.
I have Photoshop CS3 Extended & just had a quick look in there & saw immediately the Layers,Channels & Paths you explain but, mmmmmm that program looks way to complicated for me right now, but, you never know I may some day just give it a go.
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Post by Horus »

:lol: :lol: as they say "slowly, slowly catchee monkey" Kiya ;) just keep plodding along with what you have and eventually it will all fall into place :)
At least I am glad that I was not imagining the channels thing! :lol: :lol:
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Post by Bearded Brian »

OK I don't know what I'm doing on this topic - not got into selections and layers yet but following the instructions (PSE6) I saved a selection as in Select - save selection - new - gave it a name. Closed down the computer - opened PSE6 again picked the same picture from the organiser to edit then selected Select and load selection was available and my previous selection was there - any use?
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Post by Horus »

Yes that's how it works Brian, it is saved as part of your picture file, but had you saved it as a Jpeg or some other format and you opened that, your selection would not still be there. :)
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Post by Grandad »

Brian, my apologies, I got the avatars mixed and called you Ken......

Just shows why the 'grey stuff' has trouble getting to grips with these editors. :(

I think you have resolved my problem with Elements in that, as Horus says, it saves the selection with the picture file. Just tried it and it works that way. I don't see it as a very useful tool and prefer to use PSP for layers because you can save them as a unique selection and incorporate them as a layer in other pictures which is why I have many filed as PSP IMAGE files. And I find it so much easier to use.

Thanks for the tutorial Horus but my simple needs are unlikely to persuade me to go up to the full photoshop programme.
:gg:
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Post by Horus »

I also prefer to use PSP myself Grandad, :) I only venture to Photoshop if I have no alternative, or to try and answer a query from you guys. ;)
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Post by Grandad »

Forgive me for prolonging this thread but while on the subject of layers I am looking for some advice on putting objects behind glass as in a bottle. And Horus this is a little challenge for you. I just did this with 4 layers:

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From the back it was:
1 Bottle unaltered
2 A selection of a sons head (with funny glasses) at 100% opacity
3 Bottle with opacity reduced to about 40%
4 Bottle with green selected just leaving the cap and label

Is there any special tricks to make this kind of collage more convincing???? I can't understand why his collar shows over the label when the top layer should have covered it....

Cheers
:gg:
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Post by Horus »

Lovely Grandad, I like it very much :) and the picture isn't bad either :lol: :lol:
Not having the actual file to look at, my initial thoughts are if maybe you have not got the cap & label layer on the top of all the others?
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Post by Grandad »

You are probably right Horus although I thought the stack order was correct.......... hick!
:gg:
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Post by Kiya »

This is 1 I did a while ago, not using layers, opened 2 photos, 1 with telegraph pole the other with close up of phone, in editor made sure the 2 photos were the same size, I wanted the phone pic behind the telegraph pole, the 2 pics side by side & using the move tool dragged the pole pic on top of phone pic then played around with opacity.

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Post by Horus »

The order of layers can make quite a difference, I had a go at Grandads exercise, but I did not have any good Whiskey so had to make do with some cheepo Tesco Port :lol: :lol:

I did it as follows, counting down from the top in the layers pallet:

1st layer = a full picture of the bottle, 100% opacity, blend mode = Overlay.

2nd layer = a full picture of the bottle with the green colour deleted by use of selection tool, leaving only the surrounding background, cap & Label. Again at 100% opacity, blend mode = Normal

3rd layer = a selected image of one of my Grandsons pretending to be a spy :roll: with opaque background.
At 100% opacity, blend mode = Normal

4th layer = Another full picture of the bottle, 100% opacity, blend mode = Normal.

Note the first layer is 'Overlay' and the last layer is 'Normal'
This may not seem to make sense as they are identical pictures, but it usually gives your picture a brighter finish, try it :)

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Post by Grandad »

Thanks for the tips H. :)

That overlay option is the one that I did not know and is very clever in this type of layer build up with a transparent object. :)

Off to try to do something decent now..........
:gg:
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